# "Everybody draw Mohammed" on May 20 to support South Park **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307 "2010-04-25T16:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/101 "2010-04-26T00:13:39Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > They had enough power to get Comedy Central to bleep large portions of the South Park episode. It was a “he”, not a "they, and that’s not power over me, that’s Comedy central exercising its own right to air whatever it wants. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/102 "2010-04-26T00:28:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > That isn’t the point, though. The point is, you don’t have the right to threaten to kill someone just because they are insulting. And people shouldn’t refuse to do things, just because a few people threaten harm. So, while I’m sorry the Muslims are going to be insulted by this, there’s a bigger issue at stake. Exactly! Don’t refuse because of threats by a very small but very vocal minority. Refuse because it’s the right thing to do towards a very large and entirely harmless majority. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/103 "2010-04-26T00:30:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It was a “he”, not a "they, and that’s not power over me, that’s Comedy central exercising its own right to air whatever it wants. It was a “he” who had the historic background of “they” for carrying out deadly threats. The protest is a recognition of this. It was a simple innocuous cartoon that was privately censored based on past threats for the exact same thing. I’m personally impressed that you are immune to threats but I would think you would be concerned for the safety of others. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/104 "2010-04-26T00:33:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No it wasn’t. The word was “naggers.” That’s not what Randy said. And he was not treated well as a result. I believe he lost his job over it, and threatened with violence. So maybe this is a slippery slope. Not standing up to censorship 3 years ago has led to this! What’s next? Eventually they’ll require women to cover their nipples! There is a guy in BC challenging child porn laws on the grounds of free speech. I hope you guys take up his cause next. He’s kind of alone. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/105 "2010-04-26T00:36:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was a “he” who had the historic background of “they” for carrying out deadly threats. The protest is a recognition of this. It was a simple innocuous cartoon that was privately censored based on past threats for the exact same thing. It has been privately censored since it started in 1997. Ha, all this time I thought the N\*gger episode was older. But turns out the first time they censored Mohamed was Apr 5, 2006 (Cartoon Wars Parts 1 and 2). You guys are really late to the party, the cartoon gazpacho already won. > [@Magiver](#): > > I’m personally impressed that you are immune to threats but I would think you would be concerned for the safety of others. Didn’t you see the episode?! What do you think you’re protest is going to do? My guess is cause a lot of violence. Aren’t YOU concerned for the safety of others? ---
**Author:** ![Aelita\_Daystar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@Aelita\_Daystar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aelita_Daystar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/106 "2010-04-26T00:38:22Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > They aren’t offended that we are poking fun at their team. > > They find it objectionable to depict the prophet Mohamed, PBUH, period. > > Remember how the 10 Commandments included: > 3 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." > > 7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name. > > Islam has similar statements (coincidence?). Depicting the prophet Mohamed, PBUH, is seen as idol worship. Which is why they don’t adorn their mosques with giant statues of him, or cover the ceilings with his likeness, or make big big stain glass windows of him. And doesn’t that mean the issue is really that many Muslims feel offended that **other people** are idolaters and therefore disrespecting God? Why is it suddenly different when it’s about Islam? While people obviously should not be xenophobic, I think defending the objectors so much is kind of overcompensating. I think that this kind of thing should be opposed regardless of what religion it is we are talking about.This is not showing the bottom of your shoes or something, this is absolutely a religious issue. Muslims absolutely have been oversensitive on these issues. From my understanding Islamic cultures hasn’t dealt with much pluralism at - treating people as dhimmi is not pluralism really pluralism. Why complain about xenophobia whenever something like this comes up. The “problem” with Islam is that it’s functioning like “old time religion” still. People seem to want pluralism, but then then whenever Muslims get offended, they get shown special consideration. And that’s the problem. Instead of a pluralistic culture where everything flows, something cosmopolitan, instead you get a balkanized aggregate. I don’t know about you, but that sounds like it might tend towards being dysfunctional. Pluralism isn’t just some default state that occurs when the government isn’t oppressive, it’s a type of culture which is a product of the Enlightenment. There are xenophobes who just want everyone to be exactly like them, and then there are people who want Islam to join everybody else at the table. Some Muslims do, but plenty aren’t ready, while are so opposed to the prospect of joining the table that they turn to violence. That’s what all the non-xenophobes of the West really want from what I can tell, but that’s not going to happen if we fold every time there is any opposition. Christian fundamentalists in the US are similar, but there is no reason to coddle them either. I knew someone once who got utterly pissed because there were pentagrams in things (and I don’t mean for religious purposes). He considered them to be satanic and an insult to God. I thought it was ridiculous, so I didn’t care if it offended him - it’s his problem not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/107 "2010-04-26T00:47:14Z")
Wow, this is retarded. 1. There was no death threat. There wasn’t a threat at all. There was a (frankly, seemingly well-intentioned) reminder that the whole thing was probably a bad idea. 2. Comedy Central massively overreacted. Protest against _them_. 3. The outrage over this non-event is insulting to the memory of Theo Van Gogh and people like Salman Rushdie (remember him? Yeah, those were _actual_ death threats). 4. _South Park_ jumped the shark like three years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/108 "2010-04-26T00:47:27Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > I > Didn’t you see the episode?! What do you think you’re protest is going to do? My guess is cause a lot of violence. Aren’t YOU concerned for the safety of others? Nothing like the religion of peace to drive home a point. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/109 "2010-04-26T00:48:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was a “he” who had the historic background of “they” for carrying out deadly threats. The protest is a recognition of this. It was a simple innocuous cartoon that was privately censored based on past threats for the exact same thing. > > I’m personally impressed that you are immune to threats but I would think you would be concerned for the safety of others. If you’re concerned about the safety of others, and you think that this one tool truly represented a threat (even HE didn’t actually threaten anyone, by the way), then you should support Comedy Central censoring the episode to protect the safety of theres. Not that there was actually any threat – at least not more so than all the death threats that Christians send to Richard Dawkins and PZ Meyers all the time. If you’re an abortion doctor, the threats aren’t even empty. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/110 "2010-04-26T00:49:50Z")
1.4 billion Muslims should write letters to Comedy Central telling them to quit pissing off South Park viewers who are a pretty irreverent lot anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/111 "2010-04-26T00:50:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It was a “he”, not a "they, and that’s not power over me, that’s Comedy central exercising its own right to air whatever it wants. The moral relativists have clouded this issue so much that it is time to do a reality check. Argument 1: **Comedy central is exercising its own right to air whatever it wants; Parker and Stone have no constitutional right to have their material aired.** Rebuttal: Of course they don’t. And of course Comedy central and other networks/stations exercise _their_ choice to accept or reject material every day. But presumably people have a right to express religious opinions that others disagree with without having their lives threatened, even indirectly. What we have here is two episodes that were produced and ready to run. Between the first and second episode, a web site indirectly threatened violence and murder, at which point the network cravenly censored the second episode. Argument 2: \*\*The threat was from a crazy “loser” kid who is a white convert to Islam and all this outrage is pointless. \*\* Rebuttal: Hard to understand what his colour has to do with anything, but he is a responsible 20-year-old MAN (young yes, but still an adult) who is married (to a Muslim woman). This is not a teen prank by a 12-year-old. Furthermore, this has to be seen in the context of over 20 years (ever since the Satanic Verses in 1989) of Islam demanding that the west sacrifice its freedom of expression and freedom of speech by allowing our rights to to be overruled by Islamic laws on blasphemy. These demands that Islamic laws be applied THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, even in our western democracies, have been backed by threats of violence and actual violence, including the murder to translators of Salman Rushdie’s work, the murder of Theo van Gogh, the attempted murder of Danish cartoonists, the death threats against Geert Wilders and “Infidel” author Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and other atrocities too numerous to mention. It is in this context that the present discussion is taking place. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/112 "2010-04-26T00:53:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Nothing like the religion of peace to drive home a point. Kind of like murdering doctors and firebombing clinics to protect the Christian sanctity of life. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/113 "2010-04-26T00:57:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If you’re concerned about the safety of others, and you think that this one tool truly represented a threat (even HE didn’t actually threaten anyone, by the way), then you should support Comedy Central censoring the episode to protect the safety of theres. > . Ah, the Neville Chamberlain response. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/114 "2010-04-26T00:58:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Nothing like the religion of peace to drive home a point. I’m just wondering, who started this practice of sarcastically referring to Islam as the “religion of peace”. I hear this said facetiously from Islam haters all the time. Do Muslims actually call it that? > [@Magiver](#): > > Ah, the Neville Chamberlain response. Hitler comparisons on page 3? I’m disappointed. We should have got these out of the way a couple pages ago. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/115 "2010-04-26T00:58:59Z")
> [@Aelita\_Daystar](#): > > Why complain about xenophobia whenever something like this comes up. The “problem” with Islam is that it’s functioning like “old time religion” still. People seem to want pluralism, but then then whenever Muslims get offended, they get shown special consideration. And that’s the problem. Instead of a pluralistic culture where everything flows, something cosmopolitan, instead you get a balkanized aggregate. I don’t know about you, but that sounds like it might tend towards being dysfunctional. Muslims are asking that images of Mohamed not be shown. It’s a matter of being polite. Like someone asking you to take your shoes off, or cover your mouth when you sneeze. A select few are using this as an excuse to be violent for the sake of violence. And another select few are using this as an excuse to be assholes for the sake of being assholes. There is a reason I keep making reference to the N word. Chinese people don’t like being called chinks. Japanese people don’t like being called Japs. Korean people don’t like being call gooks People with mental disabilities don’t like being called retard. All of these things are related. Which is why I suggested on May 20th of this year you start with the N word. Reclaim that. Start with a group of 36.6 million, that are less likely to blow something up when angry. Then work your way towards the 1.4billion. Unless this isn’t about free speech at all? Personally I think this is about xenophobic douche bags looking for an excuse to be assholes towards people they don’t understand. > [@Aelita\_Daystar](#): > > Pluralism isn’t just some default state that occurs when the government isn’t oppressive, it’s a type of culture which is a product of the Enlightenment. There are xenophobes who just want everyone to be exactly like them, and then there are people who want Islam to join everybody else at the table. Some Muslims do, but plenty aren’t ready, while are so opposed to the prospect of joining the table that they turn to violence. That’s what all the non-xenophobes of the West really want from what I can tell, but that’s not going to happen if we fold every time there is any opposition. You’re not folding, that’s the point. You are showing that you are not xenophobic douche bags by expressing your right to free speech, and at the same time showing that you are capable of respecting someone else’s belief. This isn’t protesting against a government law. It was a private company censoring all 201 episodes of a cartoon show. As a society we started censoring it 13 years ago, and have been find with that ever since. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/116 "2010-04-26T00:59:58Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > The moral relativists have clouded this issue so much that it is time to do a reality check. I’m not a moral relativist, I’m a moral absolutist, and I haven’t made any moral arguments anyway. You’re talking out of your ass. > [@](#): > > Argument 1: **Comedy central is exercising its own right to air whatever it wants; Parker and Stone have no constitutional right to have their material aired.** > Rebuttal: Of course they don’t. And of course Comedy central and other networks/stations exercise _their_ choice to accept or reject material every day. But presumably people have a right to express religious opinions that others disagree with without having their lives threatened, even indirectly. Nobody’s lives were threatened. > [@](#): > > What we have here is two episodes that were produced and ready to run. Between the first and second episode, a web site indirectly threatened violence and murder, at which point the network cravenly censored the second episode. Your problem is with the network, not the non-sxistent threat. There was no threat. > [@](#): > > Argument 2: \*\*The threat was from a crazy “loser” kid who is a white convert to Islam and all this outrage is pointless. \*\* There wasn’t any threat. The point is that there also wasn’t any group, notwithstanding, your shrill, xenophobic, sobbing hysteria. > [@](#): > > These demands that Islamic laws be applied THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, even in our western democracies, have been backed by threats of violence and actual violence, including the murder to translators of Salman Rushdie’s work, the murder of Theo van Gogh, the attempted murder of Danish cartoonists, the death threats against Geert Wilders and “Infidel” author Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and other atrocities too numerous to mention. This is pure horsehit. No such thing has happened in the US, nor is it ever going to happen. Turn on the AM radio any day 0f the week or watch Fox News and you’ll hear all the Islamophobic hate speech you want. Comedy Central does not owe you hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/117 "2010-04-26T01:00:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Kind of like murdering doctors and firebombing clinics to protect the Christian sanctity of life. Yes, that’s a good comparison:rolleyes: It’s a good thing Jesus isn’t trashed on South Park or billions of Christians would be rioting in the street. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/118 "2010-04-26T01:01:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Ah, the Neville Chamberlain response. It’s not my response it’s your own, if we follow your own stated concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/119 "2010-04-26T01:03:10Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > I’m just wondering, who started this practice of sarcastically referring to Islam as the “religion of peace”. I hear this said facetiously from Islam haters all the time. Do Muslims actually call it that? Mathir bin Mohammed, then the President of Malaysia, and a moderate Muslim, used the phrase “Islam is a religion of peace” (note the indefinite article) in 2001 when condemning the 9/11 attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307/120 "2010-04-26T01:03:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 1. There was no death threat. There wasn’t a threat at all. There was a (frankly, seemingly well-intentioned) reminder that the whole thing was probably a bad idea. Really? Saying that Parker and Stone could end up like Theo Van Gogh isn’t a death threat? From Wikipedia: [Theo Van Gogh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_%28film_director%29): Mohammed Bouyeri murdered Van Gogh in the early morning of 2 November 2004, in Amsterdam, in front of the Amsterdam East borough office (stadsdeelkantoor) on the corner of the Linnaeusstraat and Tweede Oosterparkstraat (52°21′32.22″N 4°55′34.74″E / 52.35895°N 4.9263167°E / 52.35895; 4.9263167), while he was cycling to work. [3] Bouyeri shot van Gogh eight times with an HS 2000 handgun, and Van Gogh died on the spot. Bouyeri then attempted to decapitate him[4] and stabbed him in the chest. Two knives were left implanted in his torso, one attaching a five-page note to his body. Yeah, I guess I can see how saying people will end up like someone who was shot eight times and then was almost decapitated isn’t really a death threat… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-draw-mohammed-on-may-20-to-support-south-park/537307.md?page=7)