# EVERYBODY gets carded. WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 4, 2004, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125 "2004-12-04T23:57:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/21 "2004-12-05T03:17:53Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > **Danceswithcats,** I want to tread lightly here, since I’m not 100% sure I am getting what you’re selling. > > First, I’m not sure how Mr. Tavernkeeper got involved, since I’ve yet to be carded in a local bar to get a beer. Yet a bar, where liquor is consumed immediately, after which the patron drives home would seem to be a bigger threat to society than a grocery store where I might stock up once a week for home consumption, but drink nothing on the way home. > > And are you suggesting that it is reasonable for all facets of society to protect itself by a mandatory tracking of where each of us goes by GPS, using auto computers to write self-tickets for speeding, your car to refuse to start if you don’t perform proper maintenance regularly, a giant computer tracking everything we buy and use, etc.? Technologically, all this is possible, and more. And it would surely “protect” the innocent – who need fear this tracking except the guilty? > > Am I understanding you? I don’t believe you did understand me, and sadly, society has already decided to decline what I’m selling, which is admitting/accepting responsibility for oneself. The news regularly reports stories of persons involved in accidents, both above and beneath the age of majority, who charge the vendor of alcoholic beverages with being causal to the accident. As such, I suggested that any vendor of libations, be it by the drink, bottle, case, or keg is acting in their own interests to avail themselves of advanced methods for determining the legitimacy of an ID presented to them, as they will need same to present as defense should they find themselves named in a lawsuit. Hopefully, I’ve clarified my position. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/22 "2004-12-05T03:28:51Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Hopefully, I’ve clarified my position. 😉 Considerably, and thanks. 🙂 So your concern is not so much all-encompassing tracking of our actions and whereabouts, but more just to be able to cover your ass if you are sued for serving or selling to underage persons who subsequently commit a crime? I guess that makes sense. However, I have always been puzzled by this scenario pair. Case One: Let’s say someone of legal age purchases liquor, gets drunk, and kills someone with his car. Case Two: Same situation, but the person is not of legal age and purchased the liquor through false pretenses, or the seller didn’t check an ID. Now the outcome of both cases is the same. Surely the vendor in Case One isn’t culpable (let’s assume package goods, not a bar, and the purchaser wasn’t already drunk at the time). Should the vendor in Case Two be held responsible? If so, why? If not, then why is it so important to track the transaction? ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/23 "2004-12-05T03:53:00Z")
I went out with my sister-in-law’s brother when he was 17 (I was 22), and they’d card me but not him. Granted he _does_ look like a viking. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/24 "2004-12-05T05:49:11Z")
Regarding either scenario **Musicat** , I don’t feel the seller should be held liable. However, what I read indicates that the courts find otherwise. Paging **Bricker**! Kindly come to the Pit for a legal opinion, Sir. ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/25 "2004-12-05T10:28:19Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > It’s an astrological thing. Everyone born under the same sign (the “triple-elevens”) has become a drunk and a chain-smoker, just as the stars predicted. Well, my sister’s b-day is 11-11, but she’s not quite 93 years old. She drinks (quite a bit on her recent birthday, with an age ending in a 0), but I wouldn’t call her a drunk, and she doesn’t smoke (and gives me hell for my nic habit). I guess you have to have all three digits. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/26 "2004-12-05T15:28:15Z")
> [@ScoobyTX](#): > > Well, my sister’s b-day is 11-11, but she’s not quite 93 years old. She drinks (quite a bit on her recent birthday, with an age ending in a 0), but I wouldn’t call her a drunk, and she doesn’t smoke (and gives me hell for my nic habit). I guess you have to have all three digits. 😃 I guess so; your sis is merely a “double eleven”. The stars compel… Three digits good, ten digits better. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/27 "2004-12-05T15:49:01Z")
You think it’s bad to be carded at all? Have someone tell you that your real, actual driver’s license is stolen or fake, and that they are going to nail it to their wall of shame. This is what happened to me one fine summer afternoon at University Beverage Center in Pittsburgh. I went to pick up a case of beer, and the dink behind the counter asked me for my ID. I had no problem with this, and gave it to him. At that point he told me that there was ‘no way’ that was my real ID and that he was going to nail it on the wall with all the other fake IDs that they had confiscated from people. With a long line forming behind me, and myself desperately wanting my DL back, forget the beer, I started to become a little insistant with the guy that either he hand over my ID so that I could go buy the beer somewhere else or that he call the police and really nail me in the act of trying to pass off a fake ID. He pulled out this ‘Even if this is your real ID, you just turned 21 a couple of months ago and you shouldn’t be acting this way.’ I told him it didn’t matter when my birthday was, that he was attempting to _steal my driver’s license_ and I wanted it back. The line of people behind me was growing impatient, so I finally said ‘If you don’t call the police, I’m going to. Refusing to give back my valid driver’s license is theft.’ and I reached for the phone sitting on the counter. That finally got my license back, and resulted in me being called a bitch. I left, with my ID but without the beer, and vowed never to buy anything from UBC. And I haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Caprese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@Caprese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caprese)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/28 "2004-12-05T15:51:14Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > More times than not, if you look very carefully, you will find the same generic item at a regular price cheaper than the discounted special. The tag announcing the “special – cents off” catches the eye, but if you assume it always means that that one is the best buy, you will be misled. Oh yeah, I agree. And being in a discount store such as SuperTarget does _not_ automatically mean every item there is cheaper than at other stores. This is why I shop around for wine, pet food, groceries, whatever. Regardless, I really had thought that my days of being carded were well over. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/29 "2004-12-05T18:06:05Z")
The weekend I moved away to law school, my dad and I were staying in a hotel in Houston and went next door to a Taco Cabana. When we tried to order some margaritas, they carded me…and my dad, who is very obviously in his sixties. This was probably the first time he’d been carded since the Nixon administration. The most likely explanation is that particular Taco Cabana, and probably some of the other seemingly baffling businesses y’all are mentioning, is a recent swat or six on the hand from the local alcohol beverage commission or whatever you have in your jurisdictions. If a business bets stung with one too many citations for serving the underage, eventually it gets its license revoked. A lot of managers who have been hit repeatedly in recent weeks and feel like the heat is on them will finally say “screw it–card _everyone_, eight to eighty.” ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/30 "2004-12-05T18:17:48Z")
One time I attempted to enter a bar with my boyfriend, who was and looked about 35 at the time, and was denied because he didn’t have ID. (He was a foreigner and it never occurred to him that he needed to carry his passport to a bar.) Future lawyer that I was, I argued with the guy, who claimed that he was required by law to check the ID of every person who entered the bar. As I understand it, they are required to check the ID of anyone who looks like they might be under 21. It’s even more frustrating when you are denied entry to a bar where your friends are waiting for you. At least you could go to another store. Funny, I get carded for cigarettes more often than for alcohol. I’m 30, and I haven’t looked 17 since I was 12! ---
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/31 "2004-12-05T20:05:08Z")
My mom was carded buying a case of beer at the supermarket a couple of years ago. She was 75. ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/32 "2004-12-05T20:17:11Z")
I was at a minor leauge ball game in Bowie, Maryland, and went to the concession to get some beer. The gentleman in front of me was at least in his 70’s, and was asked for ID. I began laughing, and the gentleman and I joked back and forth a bit about how it must be his deceptively youthful appearance that was fooling the vendors. The people behind the counter looked very offended. I’m sorry, but if you are going to act like a mindless beaurocratic idiot, I am going to mock you. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/33 "2004-12-07T13:53:57Z")
I just checked back with the Pik-N-Save store, a clerk, not the manager. She said the driver’s license number is entered into the cash register for all liquor purchases. This goes way beyond just checking your age. They are building a database showing who, when, and what for all liquor items. Doesn’t anyone see the potential for abuse with this? It could be sold to data-collecting agencies and linked with the rest of your non-private life. It could be subpeoned for evidence (this could be good or bad). It could be linked to medical or credit records. Can you imagine being turned down for a mortgage because you bought more Coors than the bank thinks you need? It’s a lot like the store discount cards, but those are voluntary and they don’t require proof of ID to get one (that is, they don’t require a valid name, address or SSN). Now, there are those that say, “Your life is an open book anyway, get used to it.” Conversely, there are those who say, “It’s all part of a giant, world-wide consiracy and we are heading for Armageddon; here’s proof.” I’m neither of those, but I think this kind of involuntary data collection is going to far. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/34 "2004-12-07T13:57:30Z")
I know it’s cliched, but in this case it’s probably true: Blame the lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/35 "2004-12-07T15:01:26Z")
I posed the following question to a bartender-friend of mine a few weeks ago… _A woman, to your best observation is obviously pregnant, orders an alcoholic beverage. Do you serve her?"_ After several minutes of discussion and “it depends on the situation”, he told me this. There’s liability involved. Potentially could cost the bar much more than a few lost customers. He couldn’t refuse to serve her if she appeared pregnant ( or Asian or blind or just because he didn’t like her attitude). But he **can** card her. And he **can** refuse to serve her based on the observation that he believes her ID to be fake. But, once an establishment starts down that path of carding people they wish not to serve, then they can’t reverse themselves. It’s certainly a cover-your-hiney issue. This policy removes the front line employees (who, let’s face it, are probably making close to minimum wage and possibly couldn’t care less about their employer’s liability) from making judgement calls. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/36 "2004-12-07T15:01:30Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > … I’m neither of those, but I think this kind of involuntary data collection is going to far. That would be “‘too’ far.” I really pisses me off when the spelling checker doesn’t catch an error, I don’t catch the obvious error, and I can’t edit the post. Meanwhile… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/37 "2004-12-07T15:20:40Z")
> [@Joe Random](#): > > See, you’ll never catch me leaving my wallet in my car. I figure that if my car is ever stolen, losing my wallet along with it would just be adding insult to injury. Not to mention that some cop might want to see that ID while you’re nowhere near your car. I doubt any cop would be happy to hear, “It’s in the car.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/38 "2004-12-07T15:36:36Z")
It makes sense to me that they card everybody, particularly since they have so much to lose. Maybe you look as old as a weathered porch rocker, but not everybody is a good judge of age. Their policy is to card everyone; your policy is to leave your ID behind. I don’t know why one policy deserves a pitting more than the other. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/39 "2004-12-07T15:52:32Z")
> [@Lucretia](#): > > I was at a minor leauge ball game in Bowie, Maryland, and went to the concession to get some beer. The gentleman in front of me was at least in his 70’s, and was asked for ID. I began laughing, and the gentleman and I joked back and forth a bit about how it must be his deceptively youthful appearance that was fooling the vendors. > > The people behind the counter looked very offended. I’m sorry, but if you are going to act like a mindless beaurocratic idiot, I am going to mock you. Of course that’s it, they are mindless beaurocratic idiots. They should rebel against the system, refuse to abide by the standards and practices of their job. Stick it to the man! What’s the worst that could happen? Oh yeah, fired. It’s a mild inconvience. If you want to drink, bring ID. Store owners have been sued or cited too much to take chances. I get carded all the time. At 37 I do not look under 21. I get slightly annoyed but thats about it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125/40 "2004-12-07T16:27:21Z")
> [@Ninja Pizza Guy](#): > > I believe it derives from our one size fits all, \*\*take no prisoners \*\* idea of a legal system, but that’s a rant for some other time. I know it’s just a figure of speech but it made me laugh. You have seen the legal system haven’t you? The one with all the prisoners? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everybody-gets-carded-wtf/278125.md?page=3)