# Everyone knows who Hillary Clinton is.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714 "2005-02-01T02:23:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/21 "2005-02-01T13:22:56Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Is she or are the news media trying to distance her from her husband? Didn’t President Clinton get re-elected and balance the budget? And it isn’t as if during the Clinton administration the economy tanked like under Carter. Objectively, he wasn’t that bad as a President. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/22 "2005-02-01T13:47:59Z")
> [@MinniePurl](#): > > Why does the NYT call her MRS. Clinton on second reference? At first this seemed disrespectful, as other CongressCritters seem to get called Sen. SoandSo or Rep. Whatsherface on second reference. But then I noticed that various Heads of State are called Mr. on second reference-- Mr. Bush, Mr. Chiriac, Mr. Mubarak, etc. Does HRC get the Mrs. because she’s a former first lady? The NYT is unique among US paper in insisting that a title always be given on second reference. This led to odd usages, such as when they covered a Meat Loaf concern (“Mr. Loaf did a cartwheel on stage”). I had heard that they were dropping the rule, but maybe they keep it for politicians. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/23 "2005-02-01T14:54:10Z")
> [@MinniePurl](#): > > But then I noticed that various Heads of State are called Mr. on second reference-- Mr. Bush, Mr. Chiriac, Mr. Mubarak, etc. Does HRC get the Mrs. because she’s a former first lady? I think she gets the “Mrs.” rather than “Mr.” because she is a married woman. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/24 "2005-02-01T15:37:35Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Ss I guess we will call Bill Clinton…William Jefferson Clinton from now on. > > Right? This surely must be quite common for presidents, though, isn’t it? I mean, I’m English, and off the top of my head I can name Dwight David Eisenhower, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Lyndon Baines Johnson, Harry S Truman, Richard Milhouse Nixon, James Earl Carter, Ronald Wilson Reagan, George Walker Bush… who am I missing? Ford? What was he? An R? [Goes to look it up] Rudolph?! Oh, and it’s George _Herbert_ Walker Bush, it seems. Well, fair enough if he’s kept quiet about that. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/25 "2005-02-01T16:09:02Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > No, she was Hillary Clinton or Hillary Rodham Clinton during Bill Clinton’s stint as governor of Arkansas from 1982 to 1992. She was Hillary Rodham during his first term from 1978 to 1980, but she felt that the voters of Arkansas didn’t like that so she switched to Clinton. This sounds right, now that I think about it. Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/26 "2005-02-01T17:04:43Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > No argument from me. > > Ss I guess we will call Bill Clinton…William Jefferson Clinton from now on. > > Right? > [@WotNot](#): > > This surely must be quite common for presidents, though, isn’t it? I mean, I’m English, and off the top of my head I can name Dwight David Eisenhower, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Lyndon Baines Johnson, Harry S Truman, Richard Milhouse Nixon, James Earl Carter, Ronald Wilson Reagan, George Walker Bush… who am I missing? Ford? What was he? An R? You guys do realize that RODHAM is her MAIDEN NAME right? Her middle name is [Diane](http://www.wic.org/bio/hclinton.htm) So William Jefferson Clinton::Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton She just happens to be without the dash. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/27 "2005-02-01T17:24:28Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > You guys do realize that RODHAM is her MAIDEN NAME right? Her middle name is [Diane](http://www.wic.org/bio/hclinton.htm) > > So William Jefferson Clinton::Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton > > She just happens to be without the dash. Why, yes, I did realise that. I’m sorry, I was just wondering about this side-issue of Presidential middle names that came up. I thought that the Hillary question had been fairly comprehensively answered. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/28 "2005-02-01T17:31:03Z")
ZipperJJ writes: \> She just happens to be without the dash. No, it’s more than that. There are now many different ways that a married woman in the U.S. can choose to refer to herself. Hillary Clinton could have chosen to refer to herself as Hillary Rodham or Hillary Clinton or Hillary Rodham-Clinton (where Rodham-Clinton is the last name) or Hillary Clinton-Rodham (where Clinton-Rodham is the last name) or Hillary Rodham Clinton (where Rodham Clinton is the last name) or Hillary Rodham Clinton (where Clinton is the last name and Rodham is, in effect, a middle name). Hillary Rodham Clinton considers Clinton to be her last name. There are also cases where a woman uses one name for business purposes and another for personal purposes. And then there are all the variations that a husband can go through, like hyphenating their names or even taking his wife’s name. And there are all the variations that their children can go through with which name or hyphenated name they choose to use. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/29 "2005-02-01T23:32:10Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Is she or are the news media trying to distance her from her husband? I doubt if she will distance herself very much from Bill until at least after she is elected President. But then what’ll she do about the second term? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/30 "2005-02-02T00:53:01Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > I doubt if she will distance herself very much from Bill until at least after she is elected President. But then what’ll she do about the second term? Start calling herself Hillary Rodham Mellencamp. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/31 "2005-02-02T02:03:44Z")
This is why I am exquisitely delighted to live in a culture where it has become nearly fully accepted that a woman keeps her own doggone legal name throughout her life and any reference to “_Señora de Delirious_” is mere social courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/32 "2005-02-02T04:34:55Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Oh, and it’s George _Herbert_ Walker Bush, it seems. Well, fair enough if he’s kept quiet about that. The Rodhams were a prominent family before Hillary got married, and in some families, it is important to preserve such links to past generations. Let me give you another example. When George Walker Bush’s grandfather, Prescott Bush, married George Herbert Walker’s daughter, he thought the connection was important enough to name his son **George Herbert Walker** Bush. GHWB honored his mom’s family again by naming his son **George Walker** Bush. My mother’s dad was a starving preacher, however, when my mom’s mom had four daughters she gave none of them a middle name. That was so they could use the maiden name as a middle name after marriage. All four did. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/33 "2005-02-02T14:57:38Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > IIRC, she made the change back in 1992, when they realized that a first lady had to have the last name of her husband. She had been calling herself, quite properly, Hillary Rodham, but made the change to Hillary Rodham Clinton to placate the yahoos. This is G.Q. " A first lady had to have the last name of her husband ". Cite, please? I mean, aside from 1800’s sexist b.s… real cite? Federal law? Since when does she **have** to do anything? Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/34 "2005-02-02T17:05:52Z")
I think **Exapno** wasn’t talking in the “the rules and regulations dictate” sense of having to do something, but more in the “your attempt will not be successful unless” sense of having to do something. If you’ll remember, there was a whole lot of fuss about Hillary being too strong, too independent, too career-oriented, wearing the pants in that family, yadda yadda bullshit bullshit. There was a whole lot of image-tinkering to make her more palatable to the, as you put it, 1800’s sexist bs demographic. I especially remember them putting on a big dog and pony show about her making cookies. And yes, I think for all practical purposes, she did have to at least tack on his last name if he was going to get elected. People are _weird_ about married women not taking their husbands’s names. When I didn’t change mine, people who it didn’t affect at all were acting like it was a personal affront. There’s still one or two who think I’m a colossal asshole for insisting that my friends and family call me by my own name rather than some name they’ve made up for me. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/35 "2005-02-02T18:36:10Z")
Even Howard Dean’s wife, who usually called herself Dr. Judith Steinberg, went on the campaign trail as “Judy Dean”. But I think eventually there is going to be a president who either marries a woman who is already famous in her own right as his second marriage or the president will be a woman who hasn’t changed her name. Tony Blair’s wife, Cherie, didn’t always use Blair as her surname when she was working as a barrister. But I believe that she always does now. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714/36 "2005-02-03T13:39:34Z")
She is called Hillary Rodham Clinton because she wants to be called Hillary Rodham Clinton. It is only good manners to call someone by their name of preference, and it doesn’t have to be explained or even have a reason. When Eleanor Roosevelt married FDR, she kept her given, birth name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-knows-who-hillary-clinton-is/287714.md?page=1)