# Everyone would be better off if you were gay, Argent Towers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496 "2005-07-21T16:59:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/41 "2005-07-21T19:04:20Z")
I think the point is that no-one should be making “forced, petty, insincere bullshit conversation” with someone they want to sleep with. If you have to feign an interest in their life, you probably shouldn’t be trying to have a sexual relationship with them. Yes, dating with the intention of sex after the date is a relationship, like it or not. If you want no-strings sex, go out and fucking have some, either a hookup from a singles bar, where all that’s asked in return is that you try not to be selfish in bed, or with a sex worker, where simply paying gets you what you want. Seriously though, I think the latter is his best bet, I don’t picture **AT** as a sensitive and generous lover. The fact is that **Argent Towers** is a couple of steps away from claiming that paying for dinner entitles you to have sex, or rather, regretting the fact that it doesn’t. Which IMO puts him way off the “poor lonely, shy guy” scale, and well onto the “misogynisitic bastard” end of things. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/42 "2005-07-21T19:05:28Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Can you please quote exactly what it is he said that made you think he just gets nervous talking to women? Because I’m not seeing that at _all_. When I said “nervous” I meant that as applied to lonely men in general. In **AT** ’s case, he said that he has trouble relating to women. Not a real turn on, I’m sure, but hardly the crime of the millenium. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/43 "2005-07-21T19:06:45Z")
Arg. I’m going to stick up for him again. Let me guess, tdn; are we doing a little projection here? Perhaps this is (was) your experience with women, which is why yuo felt like coming to this jerk’s defence? Look, I’m sure you’re a nice person, you seem nice, but this person… not so nice. So while we all feel for _you_, let’s not get confused. You’re point wasn’t valid because this guy doesn’t " get nervous around women." He wants hooker sex, for free. And I think an earlier point is valid (don’t feel like looking it up) AT would be NO FUN in bed. If you won’t even talk to girl, I’m pretty sure you have no interest in making sure she gets hers. Which wouldn’t endear him any gay men either, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/44 "2005-07-21T19:08:00Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > When I said “nervous” I meant that as applied to lonely men in general. In **AT** ’s case, he said that he has trouble relating to women. I just don’t get this, how does one have trouble _relating_ to women? Are there a different set of questions we’re supposed to be asking? I thought that taking a general interest in someone’s life and thoughts was all that’s really required to relate with anybody. Have I been going about it all wrong? It seems to me that if someone’s having trouble relating to women on a personal level, then they’re not treating women on a personal level. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/45 "2005-07-21T19:09:16Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > I dunno. I don’t mind it. I especially don’t mind it to the point where I have to go off on how I hate having to even talk or discuss anything with women because they bore me intellectually. Honestly I don’t either. Dating can be fun. It can also be a colossal pain in the ass. Sometimes I look forward to the dinners and the getting-to-know-you conversations and the buying of flowers. And sometimes I want to dispense with all of that and get me some hot monkey lovin’. I doubt I’m the only person with that attitude. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/46 "2005-07-21T19:09:18Z")
It is possible that **Argent Towers** ’ OP was not meant to say “I dislike women” but rather “I find myself not having common interests with the women I know”. Granted, he did get a little afield from that with the “If I want sex, I have to put up with this and wine and dine girls” bit, but he may not actually be the sort of jerk that a couple of the lines in his post might imply. I’m willing to go with “poorly expressed” over “hateful”, until I have some more explanation from **Argent Towers**. As I said [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6391097&postcount=18), I think he may just know women whom he doesn’t relate to. I can see a way in which his OP can be read along those lines, and I’ll thus give him the beneift of the doubt, unless he gives me further reason to believe he meant something else. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/47 "2005-07-21T19:09:32Z")
**tdn** -personally I think there’s nothing sexier than a really shy, nervous guy. All the fun you can have making him relax… But **AT** is not that guy. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/48 "2005-07-21T19:09:38Z")
Quote: "It was a half joke. Yes, I do find it worth it to put in the effort. And sometimes I don’t, so I don’t bother. But yeah, it would be great if women bestowed their sexual favors on me with no effort on my part. I’d also like to get paychecks for watching TV. I’d also like to rent-free in a mansion on the Riviera. Wouldn’t you?" Well, sorta, but TV isn’t sex. Televisions are inanimate; women are not. So it’s not a valid comparison. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/49 "2005-07-21T19:12:46Z")
Yes, irishgirl, exactly. Seducing dorky guys is my hobby. Like the tee shirt says, “if I can build a computer, I can make you cum.” Ah, so true ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/50 "2005-07-21T19:16:10Z")
> [@miss elizabeth](#): > > Yes, irishgirl, exactly. Seducing dorky guys is my hobby. Like the tee shirt says, “if I can build a computer, I can make you cum.” Ah, so true I want one that says **Talk nerdy to me**. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/51 "2005-07-21T19:16:41Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > **(Argent)'s** complaining because he actually has to put some effort into getting a girl in bed and he doesn’t like having to do that. I don’t know … I kind of read that as disillusionment with “the game” and the way “the game” works. Others MMV. \*\*Argent \*\* was likely just ranting, and not really expressing himself well. Many young single guys, from time to time, have feelings not too different from what he expressed in his MPSIMS OP. It’s not true misogyny – it’s venting. What **Argent** may not have stopped to realize is that relationships with his male buddies takes work and effort, too. No, you don’t have to “court” them romantcally, but you do have to be open to conversation, make time, spend money on mutually appreciated activities, etc. The trick is: one day, almost certainly, there will come along a woman with whom companionate intimacy is easy as it is with his male friends. And at the same time, he’ll have the hots for her – and she for he. And he’ll have never actively looked for, and he’ll never see her coming. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/52 "2005-07-21T19:18:02Z")
> [@wolfstu](#): > > It is possible that **Argent Towers** ’ OP was not meant to say “I dislike women” but rather “I find myself not having common interests with the women I know”. Granted, he did get a little afield from that with the “If I want sex, I have to put up with this and wine and dine girls” bit, but he may not actually be the sort of jerk that a couple of the lines in his post might imply. > > I’m willing to go with “poorly expressed” over “hateful”, until I have some more explanation from **Argent Towers**. As I said [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6391097&postcount=18), I think he may just know women whom he doesn’t relate to. > > I can see a way in which his OP can be read along those lines, and I’ll thus give him the beneift of the doubt, unless he gives me further reason to believe he meant something else. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/53 "2005-07-21T19:22:21Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > **tdn** -personally I think there’s nothing sexier than a really shy, nervous guy. I’d respond to this, but I don’t know what to say. And my hands are shaking. Eh? Eh? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Wrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mr.Wrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Wrong)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/54 "2005-07-21T19:24:06Z")
> [@Snakescatlady](#): > > Why do I have the definite feeling, that if by some miracle he could find a fuck-buddy, she would discover he was lousy in bed? I think this is almost certainly true. If you can’t relate to women fully clothed, you probably ain’t gonna do so well when the clothes hit the floor. I love hanging out with my female friends for just this reason (well that, and the fact that they’re, you know, my friends). If they’re comfortable around you, you can pick up some amazing tips. Now, if I’m the only guy at the table, and they start talking about _The Bachelor_ or something, I zone out or go to the bar for a fresh pint. But, you can almost always at least find out what they hate, just by encouraging them to bitch about their husbands and boyfriends. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/55 "2005-07-21T19:24:57Z")
> [@miss elizabeth](#): > > Yes, irishgirl, exactly. Seducing dorky guys is my hobby. Nice hobby. What’s that entail. . .going to Star Trek convention and bending over? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/56 "2005-07-21T19:28:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Nice hobby. What’s that entail. . .going to Star Trek convention and bending over? Only to start with 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/57 "2005-07-21T19:34:25Z")
> [@miss elizabeth](#): > > Yes, irishgirl, exactly. Seducing dorky guys is my hobby. Like the tee shirt says, “if I can build a computer, I can make you cum.” Ah, so true I find your organization intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/58 "2005-07-21T19:38:51Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > Can we just hand him over to the straight men in an attempt to protect both women and gays from his asshatedness. > > All in favor? I think the poetic justice would be in handing him over to the gay women. Just think! An additional group of women who wouldn’t sleep with him to save their lives! ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/59 "2005-07-21T19:41:32Z")
> [@](#): > > I think the poetic justice would be in handing him over to the gay women. Just think! An additional group of women who wouldn’t sleep with him to save their lives! Ha! he’d probably finally find women he could talk to! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/60 "2005-07-21T19:41:37Z")
> [@miss elizabeth](#): > > Let me guess, tdn; are we doing a little projection here? Perhaps this is (was) your experience with women, which is why yuo felt like coming to this jerk’s defence? At the risk of incurring the wrath of women everywhere… Yes. I spent a huge amount of my life as a lonely guy. I simply didn’t have the tools to deal with women. Not only did I not have the tools, I was largely unaware that there was a toolbox. I saw guys all around me hooking up, and I couldn’t understand why I wasn’t. I went through a lot of self-loathing, but on occasion my frustration would turn outwards, and while the root of my problems was loving women a little too much, I’m sure my rants resembled misogyny. No doubt that’s how others saw it. And it’s not that I was a bad person. I certainly didn’t deserve the attitude that I got, which is very like the pile-on in this thread. The reason I’m more forgiving of **AT** is because I know exactly where he’s coming from. Far more so than the rest of you, I imagine. The difference between me and **AT** is that one day (12/31/92) I decided to do something about it. I’d had enough. I made a vow to figure out just how this dating thing works. Around 7 months from that date, there was a week when I had 6 dates with 4 women, 2 of whom slept with me. On the seventh day, I rested. And I saw that it was good. Ironically I changed my luck by becoming _more_ selfish and _less_ considerate of women. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496.md?page=4)