# Everyone would be better off if you were gay, Argent Towers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496 "2005-07-21T16:59:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/81 "2005-07-21T20:59:00Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > **AT** wants NSA sex. Who doesn’t every once and a while? “Secret Aaaaaaagent Man! Secret Aaaaaaagent man! Sec-” As a matter of national security, it is my opinion that everyone get laid with me… now. Let’s do the boogie. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/82 "2005-07-21T21:08:22Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > I’m still not sure where he gets this idea that women are hard to talk to. He’s not saying they’re hard to talk to. He’s just saying they’re boring and intellectually uninteresting to talk to. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/83 "2005-07-21T21:26:10Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Anyone who suggests that dating isn’t a royal pain in the ass obviously hasn’t been dating in a long while. Eh? Dating can be real fun. Especially if you don’t have a bunch of expectations. And if you’re a fun person. > [@](#): > > **AT** wants NSA sex. Who doesn’t every once and a while? But who only wants it? ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/84 "2005-07-21T21:40:06Z")
No-one cares if you want NSA sex. It’s when you complain that you hate dating because you have to talk to women, and why don’t the women you date want NSA sex that it all gets annoying. If you want NSA sex, go and fucking have some! It’s not difficult, really it’s not, but the first step doesn’t involve taking someone on a date. Mostly it involves asking the person you fancy what they’re drinking, and then suggesting you share a bottle of it back at your place. How fucking hard is that? **Neurotik** -exactly, and my point is that if he stuck around here he would be disabused of that notion. What with all the interesting, intellectually stimulating conversation from people he might not even realise are female until he’s talked to them for a while. ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/85 "2005-07-21T22:25:36Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m sick of going on dates or get-togethers with girls and having forced, insincere, petty bullshit conversation. I hate small talk and flirtation. And I hate not being able to have no-strings-attatched sexual hookups with girls. A guy has to take them out, spend money on them, have stupid conversations with them, flatter them and compliment them…and even then, after all that, sex is not guaranteed. **AT** - Have you tried putting a paper bag over your head? ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/86 "2005-07-21T22:39:08Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > > [@tdn](#): > > > > Ironically I changed my luck by becoming more selfish and less considerate of women. > > This sounds crappy on first read. Another way to put it is “taking women off of the pedestal”. Convincing yourself that you are their “equal”, as opposed to some underling who has to constantly curry favor. Another interpretation of this would be “I stopped trying to give women what _I thought_ they wanted and started acting more like I really am.” Even if someone is kind of a jerk, I’ll probably like them more than I’ll like someone who’s trying to act a role. And I really hate it when someone makes assumptions about me without getting to know me. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/87 "2005-07-21T22:45:10Z")
**wolfstu** : [http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=42](http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=42) ---
**Author:** ![bananafish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@bananafish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bananafish)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/88 "2005-07-21T22:49:11Z")
> [@belladonna](#): > > Good grief, are we really shocked that a guy who is uninterested in a committed relationship would prefer to cut through all the bullshit and get right to the fucking? > I feel the same way 99% of the time, and I’ve never felt like that made me a sexist. You’re spot on, Missy. As a bisexual woman, I often find myself bored with the meaningless banter oozing from the mouths of the men and women I date. Can we just get a room already? **Argent Towers,** there are plenty of places to find what you’re looking for. Just don’t waste the time of woman looking for relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/89 "2005-07-21T22:51:15Z")
I think everyone has ranted about the opposite sex (Or the same sex, if they were homosexual) in a manner that, um, didn’t show their best side. However, the appropriate forum for those rants is a dark room or bar with a few friends of the same gender, not a message board frequented by members of the gender you are complaining about. I’m willing to cut **Argent Towers** a little slack before writing him off as a misogynist. Maybe he was on a few bad dates recently and needed to blow off steam. I agree that many of the things he said in the original thread were ridiculous, and I understand why women dopers are enraged by them, but I’m hoping they don’t represent his general view of women. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/90 "2005-07-21T23:09:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Hey, ease up, guys. You know how hard it is to find a woman who considers a two hour rant about _The Phantom Menace_ to be foreplay? Take it from me: it ain’t easy! \ _perks up_ So, how _you_ doin’? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/91 "2005-07-21T23:31:20Z")
Well, speaking as a woman, I can certainly sypmathize with Towers. Wait, no, I’m not! No, I don’t! ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/92 "2005-07-21T23:41:16Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Wait a second! > > I’m a lonely man and people love me! > Oh, no they don’t. > > Lonely… > > so… > > lonely Aww, Zebra, I love you because of [the Straight Dope Horror Movie](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/printthread.php?threadid=165014&perpage=69). You rock 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/93 "2005-07-22T00:00:21Z")
> [@The Hook](#): > > “Secret Aaaaaaagent Man! Secret Aaaaaaagent man! Sec-” > > As a matter of national security, it is my opinion that everyone get laid with me… now. Let’s do the boogie. 😃 Not that NSA, dummy! ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/94 "2005-07-22T00:15:41Z")
> [@Troy McClure SF](#): > > **wolfstu** : [T-Shirt Hell :: Shirts :: TALK NERDY TO ME](http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=42) Excellent. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/95 "2005-07-22T01:03:11Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > I wish I was gay Here’s an idea: Close your eyes, tap the heels of your ruby red slippers together three times and keep repeating; “There’s no disgrace for dykes or homos”. Remember, keep your eyes closed…we don’t wanna blind you with the fairy dust. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/96 "2005-07-22T01:41:31Z")
Alright, here I am, and I’m going to try as best I can to respond to everyone here. In fact, to counteract the vitriol and meanness and spur-of-the-moment thoughtlessness of my OP, I’m going to rephrase my whole entire point so that it might be a little easier to grasp my perspective: “I’m attracted to women but I have not found one whom I feel as if I can connect with emotionally and intellectually. Sometimes I envy my homosexual peers for having carefree sexual hookups. But I am not gay, so I will have to have my own heterosexual dating experiences so I can learn more about women and about myself and discover how to make my relationships more fullfilling.” That sounds a lot more civil, doesn’t it? It’s also closer to the truth of my feelings than my original post, so from now on, remember, a rant is just a rant - it doesn’t necessarily reflect my real feelings. And I’ve been reading a lot of R. Crumb over the past 3 days. First of all: > [@irishgirl](#): > > It’s not difficult, really it’s not, but the first step doesn’t involve taking someone on a date. Mostly it involves asking the person you fancy what they’re drinking, and then suggesting you share a bottle of it back at your place. How fucking hard is that? I’m 19. I can’t get into bars, so I can’t do this. > [@irishgirl](#): > > I’m still not sure where he gets this idea that women are hard to talk to. After all, in this place everyone manages to have perfectly sensible, interesting conversations about all sorts of things (for the most part). There are still some posters that people go “you’re a GIRL!!” after having had vague chats with them for years. I’m not buying the idea that the 2 sexes can’t communicate on equal terms about most topics. It’s a lot easier for people to talk on message boards than face-to-face, especially guys and girls. At least in my experience. > [@belladonna](#): > > Good grief, are we really shocked that a guy who is uninterested in a committed relationship would prefer to cut through all the bullshit and get right to the fucking? It’s not that I’m not interested in a committed relationship. It’s just that I haven’t yet met a girl whom I really feel I want to have commitment with. I feel more committed to my best (male) friend than I have ever felt with a girl. It was thinking about my relationships with my friends, and my relationships with girls, that motivated me to make my initial statement. > [@tdn](#): > > It’s been my experience that people in his situation (and this includes women) would rather wallow in self-pity than listen to advice. He’ll ask for help when he decides that he needs help. I don’t want to wallow in self-pity. If I wanted to do that I wouldn’t have posted a message to this forum that I knew was going to get a lot of people angry. I really did want to hear what other people had to say though. There are a lot of reasonable comments being made in this thread, and there are also a lot of mean things being said about me which I think are out of proportion to my OP. Snide comments about my performance in bed, women “not sleeping with me to save their lives,” me being a “jerk,” and “putting a paper bag over my head.” You don’t know me. You don’t know what I am in person…you may well haven’t even read any of my posts in this forum besides the OP that put me here in the Pit. Just know this: that OP doesn’t reflect who I am any more than any one message can reflect any of your personalities. But when you insult me, you insult me, not the message. Everyone, thanks for the feedback, good and bad. And I think that sooner or later I’ll find women I can relate to. I haven’t yet, though. But that doesn’t mean it won’t happen. And when it does, my attitude will probably change. ---
**Author:** ![exastris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b38774/32.png) [@exastris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/exastris)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/97 "2005-07-22T02:10:20Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > _snip_ > I’m 19. Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh\*. \*No offense. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/98 "2005-07-22T02:13:25Z")
You’re 19. Good luck with that growing up thing. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/99 "2005-07-22T02:17:52Z")
A classy reply to a pitting. > [@Argent Towers](#): > > You don’t know what I am in person…you may well haven’t even read any of my posts in this forum besides the OP that put me here in the Pit. Just know this: that OP doesn’t reflect who I am any more than any one message can reflect any of your personalities. But when you insult me, you insult me, not the message. Remember that for the next time you get in a dust-up online. It’s easy to be misunderstood, and people will lash out at what they heard. Don’t let it get to you any more than the extent to which they have a point. Sorry you’re not gay, - Stu 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496/100 "2005-07-22T02:22:26Z")
> [@bananafish](#): > > You’re spot on, Missy. As a bisexual woman, I often find myself bored with the meaningless banter oozing from the mouths of the men and women I date. Can we just get a room already? > **Argent Towers,** there are plenty of places to find what you’re looking for. Just don’t waste the time of woman looking for relationships. Your apparent nymphomania has nothing to do with your bisexuality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyone-would-be-better-off-if-you-were-gay-argent-towers/313496.md?page=6)