# Everyone's Afraid of Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259 "2002-12-21T20:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/41 "2002-12-23T12:12:56Z")
Because Jews reject the notion that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/42 "2002-12-23T13:17:13Z")
If you don’t know someone well enough to know which religion they are, you probably shouldn’t be making religious remarks to them. I would never wish a easy Yom Kippur fast to someone if I didn’t know they were A) Jewish and B) planning on fasting. And I would never wish “Happy Channukah” to them without knowing that they were Jewish. As I said before, many Christians don’t see anything more than a secular message in wishing someone “Merry Christmas”. However, many people who are not Christian would take it as an inapproriate remark. Not hostile or offensive, but rude and inappropriate. If you want to wish me happiness, go ahead and wish me happiness. No need to couch it in a religious message. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/43 "2002-12-23T13:56:29Z")
The only real down side to the whole Happy holidays substituting Merry Christmas plus the other odd substitutions ocurring (A Holiday tree instead of a Christmas Tree etc) seems to be the unintentional backlash against the non christians. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard " **They** are taking away our holidays! **They** want to make us like [\b]them. **They** are trying to destroy our religion. Unfortunately the they referred to are usually the wrong targets, Mainly immigrants, and the truth is the changes made are not their fault. All of these seem to be marketing decisions like the Candian Mint’s horrid commercial (playing the tune “The Twelve days of Christmas” and substituting the words “On the \_\_\_ day of gift giving”). Marketing folks are trying their darndest not to offend people understanding that we are not all Christians and their intensions are good but misguided. In doing this they both offend Christians by saying their holiday is somehow embarrasing to recognize by name and, the give a bad image to Non Chritians especially those who are recent immigrants by giving the impression that somehow there is some concerted effort by non christians to eliminate or water down the holiday. Personally, I believe everyone’s beliefs should be allowed to be recognized equally. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/44 "2002-12-23T14:09:57Z")
Sings: Tis the season to be greedy, Fa la la la la, la la la la ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/45 "2002-12-23T15:18:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > \*\*Even in Henry VIII’s time, people were complaining that Christmas was too secular-- more about drinking, dancing and gifts than a solemn contemplation of the birth of the Son of God. > \*\* Cite? UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/46 "2002-12-23T18:05:30Z")
Not Henry VIII, but 100 years after him Oliver Cromwell banned Christmas celebrations because they had gotten too secular. > [@](#): > > Cromwell banned Christmas as people would have known it then. By the C17th, Christmas had become a holiday of celebration and enjoyment - especially after the problems caused by the civil war. Cromwell wanted it returned to a religious celebration where people thought about the birth of Jesus rather than ate and drank too much. In London, soldiers were ordered to go round the streets and take, by force if necessary, food being cooked for a Christmas celebration. The smell of a goose being cooked could bring trouble. Traditional Christmas decorations like holly were banned. [http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/cromwell\_england.htm](http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/cromwell_england.htm) This implies that it was less like this in Henry VIII’s time (the 1st half of the 16th century). ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/47 "2002-12-23T19:08:29Z")
BlueMit11 is looking at it upside-down. As has already been pointed out, Christmas was a pagan celebration that was usurped by Christians. Jesus probably wasn’t even born in December, for crying out loud! It’s quite ironic that anyone would complain about people trying to steal “their” holiday and make it secular, when the Christians “stole” it in the first place. There are lots of non-Christians in the U.S., most of whom are pretty easy-going about it. The reason that we have “millions of references” to Christmas is that most of us just let you use the name “Christmas”, and don’t get too upset about it. It’s really not a big deal to most of us. But please don’t mistake that for a tacit admission that it’s “your” holiday, and we all have to bow down to Jesus. It’s everyone’s holiday, so get over it. Non-Christians _could_ be militant about it, and demand that everyone say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”, but on the occasions where people _do_ make a stink about it, it seems to enrage Christians all the more (often sparking massive letter writing or email campaigns about how those awful heathens are infringing on your rights), so what’s the point? To me, it’s just a name, and I don’t care if we say Merry Christmas, or Happy Flecktar. And I have no problem with you worshipping Jesus, but why must you insist that _I_ be involved? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/48 "2002-12-23T19:49:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I actually don’t think it’s a big deal if a tv show says merry Christmas, but it would be kind of obnoxious is they referred to the “birth of the saviour” or something like that. The meaning of winter holidays is much more varied and diverse than that. \*\* Yes, the meaning of the Winter holidays is much more varied, but the Winter holiday of Christmas isn’t ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/49 "2002-12-23T19:58:38Z")
Hey, let’s stop magazines from playboy from publishing pictures of naked women because that offends some people. Oh wait, can’t, first amendment. Let’s get shock jocks like Howard Stern off the air because people like him offend people. Oops, that’s censorship. Let’s stop artists from making works like a crucifix in urine. Hey, censorship again. Let’s get people to stop talking about Christ during **Christ** mas… Yeah, good idea, after all, we can’t allow offensive speech. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/50 "2002-12-23T20:40:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > Let’s get people to stop talking about Christ during **Christ** mas… Yeah, good idea, after all, we can’t allow offensive speech. This is not a censorship issue. We’re talking about commercial enterprises making a choice not to talk about Jesus, because they are smart enough and sensitive enough to realize that there are Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, etc. who are ALSO consumers. Nobody is _prohibiting_ anyone from talking about Jesus. Talk about Jesus all you want, but if the rest of us don’t want to, that’s just tough. There are other beliefs out there, and we all have just as much right as you to enjoy the holiday season. And this is the point I made before: Give 'em an inch and they take a mile. Like I said, most non-Christians don’t get too upset about calling it “Christmas”, even though we are talking about people of many different beliefs all celebrating a holiday season together. But then you turn around and say: “Well since we get to call it **Christ** mas, why isn’t everyone talking about Jesus all the time? Waaaah!” But if we _didn’t_ let you call the holiday season “Christmas”, I’m sure you’d whine about THAT, too. This is completely different from a government entity, for example, putting up a sign that says Jesus is Lord, or something like that. Why should MY tax dollars go towards proclaiming YOUR religion? The only correct position for the GOVERNMENT is neutrality. So that’s not censorship either, it’s merely government abstention from advocating one religion over another, as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![rampisad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@rampisad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rampisad)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/51 "2002-12-23T20:43:12Z")
Want to be totally confused about the meaning of Christmas??? Join me and IcicleFuzz in the 40 degree heat of a Perth summer, contemplating all the nonsense of a ritual celebrating the snow and “Jack Frost nipping at your nose”, holly and fir trees etc. Never seen any of that stuff. However, speaking for my self, I find it no dilemma. My religion gives me a clear answer to this quandry … I’m a cricketer (much deeper belief, totally changes your outlook)! So shove all the other stuff, bring out the lagers, turn on the telly, and lets watch the Poms getting their hides thrashed again! 'tis the season to be jolly! ---
**Author:** ![Rider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dc4da7/32.png) [@Rider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rider)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/52 "2002-12-24T05:26:06Z")
How many Jews in Israel say Happy Holidays instead of Happy Channukah to avoid offending the Christian minority, I wonder? I didn’t hear any when I was there as I recall. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/53 "2002-12-24T06:04:37Z")
Israel is a theocracy. They don’t have to sensitive. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/54 "2002-12-24T06:47:09Z")
Actually, It’s incredibly rare if I talk about Jesus at all. And I didn’t say I thought that we have to talk about Jesus during Christmas. Nor did I say anything about the government posting a sign saying that Jesus is Lord. ---
**Author:** ![rampisad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@rampisad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rampisad)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/55 "2002-12-24T08:19:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Diogenes the MissingAFewCogs > > Israel is a theocracy. My dictionary define “theocracy” as 1 : government of a state by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided 2 : a state governed by a theocracy Great as he is, Sharon in not perceived as being divinely guided. Israel most certainly is not a theocracy, any more than Iraq is a democracy because they hold elections! ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/56 "2002-12-24T08:20:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > Actually, It’s incredibly rare if I talk about Jesus at all. And I didn’t say I thought that we have to talk about Jesus during Christmas. Did you not say: “Let’s get people to stop talking about Christ during Christmas…Yeah, good idea, after all, we can’t allow offensive speech.” So let me get this straight; you _didn’t_ say we have to talk about Jesus during Christmas, but you object to people _not_ talking about Jesus during Christmas.😕 > [@](#): > > Nor did I say anything about the government posting a sign saying that Jesus is Lord. That’s why I said “for example”. It was _my_ example, not yours. I was trying to stave off the usual argument that comes up in these threads, e.g. if I mention that there is no censorship of Christianity, someone invariable will say “What about such-and-such town where they had to take down the nativity scene?” A goverment entity shouldn’t be using tax dollars to erect a nativity scene in the first place. My point is, that’s not censorship. Hope that’s more clear to you now. ---
**Author:** ![rampisad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@rampisad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rampisad)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/57 "2002-12-24T08:24:56Z")
Rider I lived for nearly 50 years in western, predominantly Christian societies. I never once got offended if someone wished me “Merry Christmas”. This whole argument is the epitome of the way in which PC has degraded social interaction. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/58 "2002-12-24T08:48:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rampisad \* > \*\*Rider > > I lived for nearly 50 years in western, predominantly Christian societies. I never once got offended if someone wished me “Merry Christmas”. This whole argument is the epitome of the way in which PC has degraded social interaction. \*\* _Which_ argument? A little specificity, please. At whom are you levelling the accusation of being “PC”? ---
**Author:** ![rampisad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@rampisad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rampisad)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/59 "2002-12-24T09:10:26Z")
blowero … rider said > [@](#): > > How many Jews in Israel say Happy Holidays instead of Happy Channukah to avoid offending the Christian minority, I wonder? I didn’t hear any when I was there as I recall. I am taking him up on his point about “Happy Holidays”, which has popped up throughout this thread. It is PC gone mad. ---
**Author:** ![Rider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dc4da7/32.png) [@Rider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rider)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259/60 "2002-12-24T10:13:24Z")
rampisad…you’re a dying breed unfortunately. blowero…read the whole thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everyones-afraid-of-jesus/144259.md?page=4)