I think I’ll send this over to Great Debates.
I personally am disgusted by the way everyone forgets the real meaning of the holiday- the birth of Mithras. I want to look out my window and see everyone bathing in blood to honor him one year.
Every year I think almost the exact opposite of the OP. Almost everywhere I go I am subjected to “holiday music” most of which is (to my ears) nothing more than gospel music.
I was in Tokyo two years ago, mid December, and the streets and many shops were decorated for Christmas – mostly Warner Bros’ Tweety Bird seemed to be the primary logo that year, although there was a new Godzilla movie and a poster that showed Godzilla being buzzed by Santa’s flying sleigh and reindeer. The Christian population of Tokyo is proportionately fairly small. The holiday is secular spending spree, encouraged by the retail sector. Go thou and buy!
How could talking about Jesus on Christmas hurt anyones feelings? That would be about as absurd as me getting my feelings hurt if Jews talked about their faith on Chaunica. It’s a historical fact that the purpose of Christmas, though things like the Christmas tree were taken from a Pagen holliday, is the celebration of Jesus being born. It’s simply a fact, whethere you believe in Jesus or not. And wishing someone Merry Christmas as opposed to Happy Holidays, isn’t mean, malicius in any way. Mentioning Jesus around Christmas time is not forcing Jesus down anyones throughts, it’s simply mentioning the name of the person for who the holliday is for. And besides look at the name
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Christmas
Christ·mas ( P ) Pronunciation Key (krsms)
n.
A Christian feast commemorating the birth of Jesus.
December 25, the day on which this feast is celebrated.
Christmastide.
[Middle English Cristemas, from Old English Crstes mæsse, Christ’s festival : Crst, Christ; see Christ + mæsse, festival; see Mass.]
[John Turturro]You said it, man. Nobody f*cks with the Jesus![/John Turturro]
The reason most people say “Happy Holidays” is that Hannukah, Christmas, Ramadan, Kwanzaa, and Solstice/Yule etc. are all around the same time. I would never wish someone I don’t know Merry Christmas, any more than I’d wish them a Happy Solstice. Why would I assume what religious affliation they have, if at any?
I don’t include Jesus in my Christmas celebrations beacuse I’m a neo-pagan atheist. I celebrate it because its a family tradition. I love giving presents, getting a tree,and singing carols.
Atheists, of course, gather together to drink and not sing. Oftimes, in moments of enthusiasm, they will form thier fingers in a circular fashion, to symbolise the Great Zero, and chant “No way! No way!”
We agnostics just shrug our shoulders all day.
Jesus used to smack me around at recess, but I learned to stand up to him.
So, what exactly is the “true meaning” of Christmas, then? And, before you answer, also consider how that meaning is diluted, as you said, by people who don’t share your beliefs. Does everyone have to share the same beliefs, and the expression thereof, for said beliefs to remain valid?
See, to me, if you have a true belief in something, then it can’t be diluted by others not sharing that belief. Do you let your faith be diluted by others? Then that’s your problem. Don’t blame it on others.
I would agree that there is a “true meaning” of Christmas for many people, but it’s obviously not the same for every one of them. Respect for the beliefs of others means that you can accept that fact without diluting your own. Your umbrage at others not sharing your beliefs or the expression thereof suggests to me that you don’t have as much respect for others’ beliefs as you say.
And for what it’s worth, while I don’t share the Christian faith of, say, my mother, I can also accept her wishes of “Merry Christmas” in the spirit which she intends, and I can say “Happy Holidays” and have it mean the exact same thing. I don’t see the problem, personally.
I’m not the first person by any means to say this, but there are two holidays called Christmas, and they both fall on December 25. One is the Christian Feast of the Nativity. The other is what C. S. Lewis called “Xmas” to distinguish it. The Xmas celebration is heavily based on traditions associated with the Feast of the Nativity - and almost as much on Egyptian, Roman, Norse and Celtic pagan Winter Solstice holiday traditions. But it is itself a basically secular holiday. There’s nothing wrong with celebrating both Christmases - or with just celebrating one or the other. Anyway, learn to tell the difference between them.
Let’s not forget that Christmas is a federal holiday. And anyway Merry Christmas is just a harmless seasons greeting. There’s a huge difference between me telling you, “Accept Christ into your life and your soul will be saved.” and me saying “Merry Christmas.” The first is me preaching to you, trying to get you to believe in my beliefs, and the second is just me wishing you a happy December 25.
Well, since Christmas is a federal holiday, you may have a point about expressing a wish for people to have a happy federal holiday. However, “talking about Jesus” is a different matter. As a private citizen, you can talk about Jesus all you want–you can even say “Accept Christ into your life and your soul will be saved”; you just can’t enlist the power and resources of the state to help you talk about Jesus.
Dude-- I think you mean secular, not non-secular. Non-secular means religious.
Not really. Christmas started out as the Roman Saturnalia, a celebration of the winter solstice. It also commemorated the death and rebirth of the Persian Sun god Mithra. Feasting, decorating trees, gift-giving, holly and mistle-toe were all pagan in origin. Christians did not celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25 until the middle of the fourth century, and it was really just an attempt to Christianize a popular pagan holiday. The actual birthday of Jesus is unknown (Some early Christians celebrated it on January 6).
Because of the significance attributed to the winter solstice in ancient times, virtually every culture had some religious celebration associated with it. So while December 25 may signify the birth of Jesus to Christians, it signifies many other things to other people. I think a lot of Christians would probably blow a gasket if some telivision show praised the Earth Mother during the holidays, even though Wiccans can make a very defensible case that the “true” meaning of Christmas is the Yule.
While I wouldn’t be offended if someone wished me a Merry Christmas, I would tell them I’m Jewish and expect them not to make that mistake again. I don’t consider it a harmless seasons greetings anymore than I’d wish someone who’s religion I didn’t know an easy fast on Yom Kippur.
Dave Barry once wrote that “Seasons Greetings” is the equivilant of saying “Appropriate Remark”.
I recognize that many people consider Christmas a secular holiday, and it certainly has a lot of secular aspects, but most people I knew who are not Christian still consider it a Christian holiday.
So some Christians get mad, so??? People get so easily offended nowadays. “Hey, some jerk wished me Merry Christmas!!!” or “<gasp> They’re showing a show on TV where people are worshiping the earth :eek:”. Free and open expression of ones views are one of the things that this country’s all about. Oh, and I love how, when people complain about sex and violence on TV, the standard response is, say it with me now, “Change the channel.” Ok then, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If some show is on TV praising the Earth and fundamentalist Christians don’t like it, guess what they can do. If you’re an Atheist, or Pagan, and you’re seeing religious stuff on TV about Christ, guess what you can do.
And hey, if the Wiccans want to make the case of Christmas being about yule. Fine, it’s a free country, they can express their opinion if they want.
If someone doesn’t know, that’s one thing. But, if after telling them that you’re Jewish, if they still insist on wishing you Merry Christmas, then yeah, that’s being rude (unless they just forgot.)
And tell me, if you wished me an easy fast on Yom Kippur, what reason would I have to get offended?
I actually don’t think it’s a big deal if a tv show says merry Christmas, but it would be kind of obnoxious is they referred to the “birth of the saviour” or something like that. The meaning of winter holidays is much more varied and diverse than that.
I’m glad somebody said it. I’m not sure if Dec 25 had anything to do with Jesus in the first place.
btw I agree with the above quote except for the word creepy…
Why shouldn’t a Christian say Merry Christmas to a Jew? It’s just saying “I hope you have a merry time during this festival period”. Much the same as a Jew saying Happy Channuka (sp?) to a Christian. Just because you don’t take part in my festival doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t wish you happiness at this time. This is one time when celebrations should be shared and offered, not divided up into neat little PC parcels. Tough shit is you’re offended by others’ good wishes.
(This is me being hypothetical, I’m an atheist by the way).