# Everything's cool, Saddam's been arrested. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934 "2003-12-14T12:07:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/261 "2003-12-21T05:21:51Z")
Wow. A lot of people share **Scylla’s** views on Iraq, and will note the same points he brings up that are being dismissed here as bigoted and/or false. (Which are, most likely, correct.) It’s kind of an inside joke that lefties think all right-leaning people are somewhat deranged and morally bankrupt, but I’ve never really seen this in practice. 😃 Scylla. Cripes. Why do you bother? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/262 "2003-12-21T05:28:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tee \* > \*\*Scylla. Cripes. Why do you bother? \*\* Because this board is supposedly about fighting ignorance. But, I don’t know how you can argue with someone who says removing a brutal dictator from power is ‘immoral’ as one poster suggested earlier. That makes no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/263 "2003-12-21T05:52:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > **Now the funny thin is, I actually believed the things my Granfather taught me. You just had to, if you knew him. He told me you can’t fight a crowd. You can’t fight more than one person. You will lose. In such a situation you should go after the leader and not let go no matter what else happened until he was out of commission.** Let´s see if I follow the analogy here, you are making an example of how to carry the War on Terror, right? So, are you impling that Saddam was the leader of whom/what? What did he have to do with terrorism? And Uzi, > [@](#): > > But, I don’t know how you can argue with someone who says removing a brutal dictator from power is ‘immoral’ as one poster suggested earlier Could you point me to that, because, honestly, I don´t see anyone saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/264 "2003-12-21T05:56:52Z")
I’ll try again, **Scylla**. It’s apparent that your “Big Dawg” theory was taught to you by your grandpa as a means of dealing with monstrous and evil niggers in the playground. Maybe the theory has a few problems, wouldn’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/265 "2003-12-21T06:04:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ale \* > \*\*And Uzi, > Could you point me to that, because, honestly, I don´t see anyone saying that. \*\* Elucidator on page 5 > [@](#): > > Cutting a deal with Libya was a smart move. Attacking Iraq was a stupid move. As well as **immoral** , illegal, and dishonest. > > Libya has committed acts of terrorism against Americans. Libya has WMD. Saddam was neither. We know now that Saddam tried to cut a deal, offering precisely the same terms that we are accepting from Libya. But we preferred war. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Obvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Mr.Obvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Obvious)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/266 "2003-12-21T06:08:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Boo Boo Foo \* > \*\*As an Australian who likes to observe these events as objectively as possible, I have to say that quite frankly, I am getting heartily sick of seeing every single event on the world stage these days being turned into yet another “kindergarten like” squabble over internal American politics. For fuck’s sake… it’s like watching two fleas arguing over who owns the dog they’re living on. > > Give it a miss already… please… \*\* As an American who tries to do the same thing…I’m equally sickened. A report comes out about preventing 9/11 and partisan sheep can’t wait to spin the report about who is more to blame…Bush or Clinton. Of course using the report to learn about how to stop this from happening again…might be good thing to do…but we we don’t have time for that…we are too busy throwing and ducking mud to do that. Saddam is captured and partisan lemmings can’t wait to take their place on the stage and trumpet their success or still proclaim the war as immoral because young men and women haven’t found WMD in Iraq…as if finding them (i.e., meaning they would exist on this planet) would be a good thing. Sickening? Absolutely. Surprising? Not really. And we wonder why so few people actively participate in this country’s political system. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Obvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Mr.Obvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Obvious)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/267 "2003-12-21T06:12:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*How about a Texas cowboy who showed contempt for international law, lied his way into an illegal war and slaughtered thousands of people for no fucking reason? Bush is only marginally less of a criminal than Hussein is. \*\* One trick left-wing liberal whack job pony diving off the deep end. Check. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/268 "2003-12-21T06:33:29Z")
> [@](#): > > But, I don’t know how you can argue with someone who says **removing a brutal dictator from power is ‘immoral’** as one poster suggested earlier Does not equal > [@](#): > > Cutting a deal with Libya was a smart move. **Attacking Iraq was a stupid move. As well as immoral, illegal, and dishonest.** ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/269 "2003-12-21T06:41:38Z")
**Scylla** : > [@](#): > > - I used his exact words.\* Yes, you did. And then went on to mischaracterize them as implying that **WE** was arguing that US foreign policy should be pursued in such a manner that “no one’s feelings might ever be hurt.” That was missing the point. > [@](#): > > - Allright. First off, people are gonna hate the US simply because we’re so powerful and affluent. Secondly, I disagree with the tone of where your going if I correctly sense a chickens coming home to roost sort of direction. People make their own choices. Nothing justifies a terrorist or transfers the blame to us.\* Yes, I agree that nothing the US has done can “justify” 9/11. But much that the US has done can, perhaps, explain it, at least to a degree. But we are looking a quid pro quo. The same can be said in reverse: that is to say, if nothing justifies terrorism, then by your own admission nothing can justify terrorist actions perpetrated by the US, or overtly/covertly supported by the US – like the illegal bombing of Laos during the Vietnam war, for example, or the US support for the Shah of Iran, or Pinochet in Chile, just to name a few random examples. > [@](#): > > - Personally, I think the mealy, wishy washy actions like in Kosovo and Mogadishu that get us in trouble long-term, not the direct actions like Iraq I and II or Afghanistan.\* Well, I’m not sure about Kosovo, but the Mogadishu example is really a case in point, since it was in fact intended as a projection of American force, one that simply backfired. As Iraq now threatens to backfire. > [@](#): > > - I think it’s exactly the opposite. The Palestinians are a continuing problem and rallying point because they have been allowed to continue to exist and they are granted this right of existance and entitlement. In case you forget your history, they voluntarily left the country eschewing full citizenship in Israel because they figured that their fellow Arabs would drive them into the sea. Having done so, I think Israel owes them nothing, and their history quite justifies their paranoia.\* Ah, I see. Your views are based on historical ignorance. That would explain it. You must know better than that, and I’m surprised you would yourself believe such simplistic historical revision. But what does this mean, that the Palestinians “_have been allowed to continue to exist?_” Do you believe that they should not be allowed that right? > [@](#): > > - The problems in the Middle East occur IMO because of a deadlock of power. Israel is not permitted to destroy the enemies who attack her, so they survive to regroup and try again. It’s a big mistake to let Israel’s enemies survive.\* Not a very nuanced analysis, I fear. > [@](#): > > - The Bush thing is indeed the asassination attempt. If it was debunked somebody should have told the President and the press corps because it was brought up in a press conference on Monday to the President in a question asking if the capture caused personal satisfaction in light of that attempt.\* Alas, my Google skills are not up to snuff. Seymour Hersch wrote extensively about this issue not too long ago. Can’t find it, though. > [@](#): > > - I’m not really concerned about Iraq as an economic threat, Svin.\* Well, that’s a relief. I’m wondering how you figure a country that weakened, one literally struggling to survive in the face of overwhelming international resistance, actually might be construed as such a threat to world peace that we must invade it. In point of fact, the US invasion showed just how weak Iraq really was. Yet you still seem to view it as a threat. Please connect the dots for me. > [@](#): > > - I haven’t made the argument that Saddam has directly attacked the US (at least I don’t think I did.) I don’t see why I should prove that they did.\* :dubious: Quoting again from your previous post, now for the second time: “_Pretending that Saddam has not committed atrocious **attacks** of terror against our allies **and us** is just stupid._” Is this, or is this not, an argument stating that Saddam has “directly attacked the US?” Sure looks like one to me. > [@](#): > > - Well yes! It wasn’t the first time the WTC got attacked by OBL, and we didn’t do shit. We didn’t do shit after the Cole either. We didn’t invade Libya. This whole swift retaliation is kind of new, you know?\* You are walking proof that propaganda really works. Explain to me again what the hell Iraq has to do with the first WTC bombing or the attack on the Cole. Or are you arguing that, when attacked by big A while walking down the street, the most reasonable response is turn around and beat the living shit out of little B, who has in fact done nothing to you whatsoever? As far as “invading Libya,” well, you’re right: we just bombed the unholy shit out its capital city, with the express intent of killing it leader and his family, because we _suspected_ that he was involved in someway with the bombing of disco that took the life of one – one! – US marine. Gosh. We sure are permissive. But the US is responsible as well for bombings of the sort perpetrated by Libya. The CIA has financed bombings to take out leaders that oppose us; some of those bombings have even gone awry and killed innocent bystanders. Does that give these leaders the right to bomb Washington, ya think? The right to try to kill Bush and his family? Yes, I would argue, by your logic it does. Regarding your story about Irv and your Grandfather, well… of course I understand your point, but you couldn’t have picked a better example of what I’m talking about. You would model the conduct of US foreign policy on the basis of a boy’s schoolyard brawl. When I was five, I had a fight in a sandbox; doesn’t mean that, at my current age, I would reduce my views on international relations to those events. > [@](#): > > - To be honest though, your attitude makes me more than a little sick. It seems to me that if that’s what you think of America you should go abroad and fight against it. If we are this brutal imperial monster, why are you hanging out here and reaping the benefits.\* Ah, yes, one of my favorites: the old “America, love it or leave it” refrain. Anyway, I did, you goofball. After serving my country for two years (have you, by the way? Or do you merely “reap the benefits?”) I left for the sunny shores of Sweden, which is where I now reside, here in the heart of beautiful downtown Mooseville. And while I don’t “fight it,” per se, I do my bit to stand up for what I believe is right. > [@](#): > > - The fact that you are doing so makes you complicit in it, you know that?\* Yes, I do, in a sense. I am complicit, but it ain’t my fault, because if I had the power to change things, I would. > [@](#): > > - My beleif is that by far, we are the greatest force for good on this planet.\* Nope. That’s a myth. I had it spoon-fed to me as a child as well, but I grew up. > [@](#): > > - Let’s see. What’s next. Your digression about US foreign policy. I don’t think you’re really looking for a response to that, but I’ll give you one anyway. I don’t buy it. I don’t buy into this “we created them,” “we are responsible” thing. I think it’s pure bullshit.\* Well, we’re not responsible for what Al Queda has become since the mujhadeen won Afghanistan, that much I agree with. I didn’t intend otherwise. But we _did_ create them (or more accurately, help create them). That is a matter of undisputed historical fact, even if you don’t buy it. > [@](#): > > - I have trouble with characterizations like “we need to worrry about repercussions.” We don’t? or “work with our allies.” Even if they don’t work with us? It’s a two way street. And in point of fact, I think that abandoning Israel is the worst thing we could do. It certainly doesn’t fit very well into your stated strategy of 'working with our allies" and not alienating them. > > We are in a war against militant muslim extremists. Israel is a strong ally in that war. Fighting these guys is the right thing to do.\* And under what conditions, do you think, does Muslim extremism flourish? What allows it to gain a foothold among the masses? > [@](#): > > - Again, I really have a problem with the way you’re characterizing things. The fact is that these kinds of characterizations really don’t mean shit. If you really do think it is a ploy for global domination then why don’t you go fight on the side of the good guys.\* I used to get this a lot back when I lived in the States. As if one can simply pick up and move to another country if one disagrees with US foreign policy. And here I was of the impression that free thought and critical discourse were the very foundation of American civil society, one of the things that supposedly made it “great.” I once again direct you to the homepage of [PNAC](http://www.newamericancentury.org/index.html), official internet organ of the neocons, and ask that you take some time to review the materials contained therein. In particular, take out an hour or so to download and skim through the pdf file entitled “_Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century_.” Your tax dollars at work. Judging from your predilections, I think you’ll really like it. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/270 "2003-12-21T07:44:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ale \* > \*\*Does not equal \*\* Please explain why not. If the only way to remove someone from Iraq is through the use of force, why is it immoral to do so? Personally, I say it would be more immoral to let a thug like him continue to exist in power. It is unfortunate that people have to die to rid the world, and Iraq, of his presence. But that is the way with dictators, they usually don’t go willingly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/271 "2003-12-21T11:59:49Z")
**Big Svin** : Seymour Hersh: ‘A Case Not Closed’, _New Yorker_ magazine, 1993. Doesn’t look like theres a way to get a cached copy of the story itself, _New Yorker_ doesn’t seem to support archive searches. I did, however, find this extract: [http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2001/msg00849.html](http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2001/msg00849.html) 'In making its case, the Administration released a series of colour photographs comparing, among other things, the circuit boards of the radio-controlled firing devices seized in Kuwait and the circuit boards of what was said to be a similar Iraqi device. The photographs were made public by Ambassador Albright. ‘Even an untrained eye can see that that these are identical except for the serial numbers,’ she said, holding up photographs of the two devices. ‘Next we have a similar comparison of the insides of the two firing devices … As you can see, the selection of the components and the construction techniques in the two devices - including soldering, the use of connectors, and the wiring techniques et cetera - are also identical’. … Most reporters - and the public - found the photographs, with their obvious similarity convincing.’ ‘One notable exception,’ writes Hersh, was an editorial in the New York Times stating that the information presented by Albright was ‘not convincing enough for a reasonable citizen to join her in being ‘highly confident’ that force … was the wisest course.’ However ‘The [New York] Times editorial led to no reassessment by the public or by the newspaper’s Washington Bureau … There is no published evidence known to me of any effort by the [New York] Times to verify independently the Administration’s specific claims against Iraq.’ Hersh asked seven independent experts in electrical engineering and bomb forensics to look at the photographs. They all told him ‘essentially the same thing: the remote-controlled devices shown in the White House photographs were mass-produced items, commonly used for walkie-talkies and model airplanes and cars, and had not been modified in any significant way. The experts, who included former police and government contract employees and also professors of electrical engineering, agreed, too, that the two devices had no “signatures”. They said that there was no conceivable way way that the Clinton Administration, given the materials made public at the United Nations, could assert that the remote-controlled devices had been put together by the same Iraqi technician.’ The whole article, if my aging synapses yet serve, made the case that America was essentially taking the word of the Kuwaiti intelligence service, who, if it need be pointed out, clearly had a “dog in the fight.” Though it cannot be fairly said that Mr. Hersh positively proves that the “assassination attempt” was bogus, at the very least he introduces an element of doubt. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/272 "2003-12-21T12:10:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Uzi \* > **Please explain why not. …** Your question assumes the necessity. “If the only way to remove someone from Iraq…” You presume that we all agree that the removal of Saddam from Iraq was a necessity, and whatever means to that necessity were therefore justified. But that’s not the pony they sold us. What they sold us was that Saddam was a direct and growing threat to the US, and that he was intimately involved with “terrorist groups” to that end. As you no doubt must know by now, that claim falls somewhere between dubious and horseshit. Perhaps by your lights it is entirely _kosher_ to change the story as unpleasant facts surface. Clearly, it is a tactic much beloved by our Admin. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/273 "2003-12-21T12:18:22Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by elucidator_ > **Doesn’t look like theres a way to get a cached copy of the story itself** The full text is available here: [November 1, 1993 A Case Not Closed By Seymour M. Hersh](http://vander.hashish.com/articles/misc/husseinbushassassination.html) It came up in GD recently: [Bush’s Whitehall Palace Speech–opinions?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4260074#post4260074) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/274 "2003-12-21T12:31:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > **I have no fucking idea who the Ringleader is. Personally, I always pictured it as a loose disorganizec confederacy, but I’m just speculating.** > [@](#): > > \*\*…For a while I know for a _fact_ that they were planning it and doing it _deliberately_, because the ringleader made the mistake of emailing my brother… \*\* (emphasis gleefully added) Well, now, which is it? “Just speculating” or “for a fact”? \*\* > [@](#): > > …Why don’t you just post your table of organization, since you’d know better than I? \*\* Beggin’ yer pardon, squire, but you’ve yet to prove such a thing even exists, much less that I am knowledgeable. True to form. Self-righteous hooey supported by snide innuendo, “signifying nothing.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/275 "2003-12-21T12:33:16Z")
Good cache, **Demostylus**! goddam smartass Aussies… ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/276 "2003-12-21T15:03:32Z")
Can anyone recall the last time a thread to which **Scylla** posted didn’t become _All About Scylla_? Fwiw, it reminds me a little of the dear departed **december** and his need for attention, no matter what the price. Of course, for december much of the motivation was a general addiction - and, in particular, the pleasure he gleaned from notoriety - whereas with Scylla it’s pure, unadulterated egotism. Thus I fear considered responses just provide our nuance-free political Neanderthal with material with which to wank all over his monitor. Nonetheless, I believe the very few old timers \ who still chose to respond to this poster deserve credit for their fortitude, as for newbies who bother . . . I wish you well. I’m afraid I’m with the overwhelming majority now, it surely ain’t worth even the shits and giggles. Ta ta. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/277 "2003-12-21T15:35:17Z")
Spot on **London\_Calling**. BTW, I saw [this story](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1514&e=2&u=/afp/iraq_saddam_britain) this morning. Note well: I put little credence in the article since it is all based on “unnamed sources”. But I am not familiar with the British _Sunday Express_ and I am curious if it has any credibility at all. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/278 "2003-12-21T15:37:15Z")
BTW, apologies if that story has been brought up already, I haven’t read all that much of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/279 "2003-12-21T17:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > **Your question assumes the necessity. “If the only way to remove someone from Iraq…” You presume that we all agree that the removal of Saddam from Iraq was a necessity, and whatever means to that necessity were therefore justified.** Well, I’m quite sure that the groom who just had his bride raped at the behest of Saddam et al would have thought it necessary, but I guess the UN was addressing such issues so there was no need for the US to get involved…I mean the UN was doing something about things like this weren’t they? :mad: So, you are pissed that you MAY \* have been lied to in order to stop a kook whose continued presence at the least caused a destabilizing influence upon its neighbours and at the worst could threaten their very existance. At least now there is some hope that the Iraqis can have a better life and the region can gain some stability. When countries are stable there is less support for terrorists who might cause things to become unstable again. \*From what I understood the UN said he had WMD, but the issue was how do deal with them: The US preferring direct action, the UN preferred to continue inspections. Maybe someone could point me to the link where the UN now says Iraq never had WMD and they were doing inspections at the time for the hell of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/280 "2003-12-21T18:12:31Z")
Hey, way to go, **Uzi**! That’s the ol’ Party Line spirit! When rational argument will not avail, wrap needless war in the trappings of virtue! This wasn’t about the threat to America, that was last month. The new! improved! Party Line is “America - Guardian of Virtue!” When exactly, did we become the palladin of virtue? Did anyone tell such noblemen as Pinochet, Duvalier, Somoza, Nhu, Diem, Batista…oh, the list goes on and on…did anyone tell those bloodthirsty monsters that they were in big trouble if America ever finds out how naughty they were? Well, of course, we did find out, didn’t we? Remember what we did? I do. So when did we don this shining armor? Was it after we dropped baskets full of $100 bills on the Afghan warlords? Those shining examples of noble democracy? The trouble with recent virtue, like new wine, it rather sets the teeth on edge. “MAY have been lied to”? We’re pretty well past that, in case you haven’t been paying attention. Wasn’t even fibs, or a shovel full at a time, but an avalanche of pure horseshit, cascading over the landscape. Now, if you’re determined to dig in with a spoon, rub your happy tummy and say “MMmmmmmm! Good!” I sure as hell can’t stop you. But I’m damned if I’ll pretend its an opinion worthy of respectful attention. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934.md?page=15)