# Everything's cool, Saddam's been arrested. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934 "2003-12-14T12:07:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/301 "2003-12-23T01:58:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rsa \* > BTW, I saw [this story](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1514&e=2&u=/afp/iraq_saddam_britain) this morning. Note well: I put little credence in the article since it is all based on “unnamed sources”. But I am not familiar with the British _Sunday Express_ and I am curious if it has any credibility at all. Sorry **rsa** , I meant to [link to this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=230758) thread in GD. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/302 "2003-12-23T02:01:32Z")
Do keep posting, **Scylla**. Nobody can remove all doubt about you better than you yourself. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/303 "2003-12-23T02:07:49Z")
Interesting theory? Well, I’ve never seen an explanation for this, which someone posted a while back: [http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/bush-911.htm](http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/bush-911.htm) It shows that Bush, for five minutes after he’s been told that the _second_ plane hit the WTC, stayed at the classroom he was visiting. Then, according to the print source they cite, a _conservative_ source, I might add, he continued to chat outside the classroom after this film cuts off. I have no reasonable explanation for this one at all. Neither does anyone else. Given that, it’s a surprise more paranoid conspiracy theories haven’t popped up. Myself, I just think he was out to lunch, as usual, and had no one with half a brain to tell him what he was supposed to do when the nation was under attack. Fits right in with his usual _modus operandi_. There’s a reason I call him Bush the Unready, and if this doesn’t illustrate his utter lack of independent thought, nothing will. But it is very, very weird. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/304 "2003-12-23T02:10:00Z")
Xeno: You’re right on cue! Goddamn you’re a predictable little turd. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/305 "2003-12-23T02:16:34Z")
That’s the spirit! What am I gonna do now, Kreskin? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/306 "2003-12-23T02:21:30Z")
Send an e-mail to \ . . . _The Ringleader_, perhaps ? **Scylla’s** “brother” has the inside story, you know. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/307 "2003-12-23T02:32:57Z")
_radio squawk:_ **kkkkkkkkkkk!!!** Ringfellow six to Ringleader - Big Dawg is on the porch - Repeat! - Big Dawg is on the porch - Request back up with flea spray - Over **kkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!** ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/308 "2003-12-23T02:32:58Z")
Xeno: > [@](#): > > What am I gonna do now Attack personalities, tell me how bad a person I am. That kind of thing. Then maybe Minty will show up and tell me what a terrible person I am, Desmostylus will say something else, Elucidator will crack something, then Elvis and London will start in, and the interesting discussion with Svin will be over. It’s what cowardly little pricks like yourself do. They show up, make drive by comments, and engage in character asassination from a safety in numbers standpoint trying to provoke a trainwreck or a meltdown. You get off on causing trouble and trying to hurt other people because you have trouble making a positive contribution. LBJ said “Any mule can kick down a barn.” That’s what you’re doing. You must feel good or get something out of saying mean things to people, otherwise you wouldn’t do it so often. Small and mean cowards looking for an outlet for their aggressions are as common and predictable as fleas. That’s pretty much what you’re doing here. You’re other choices are say nothing, or say something thoughtful. You instead have chosen to be a prick, and just post something nasty but empty. You are the sum of your choices. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/309 "2003-12-23T02:47:07Z")
Yes, I’m so _mean_ to you. Nasty; nasty, spiteful and empty. Not quite so empty as to base my political sensibility on schoolyard dynamics, nor so nasty as to advocate taking away ( :rolleyes: ) the “right to existence” of Palestinians, nor so spiteful as to reduce international dynamics to power fantiasies filtered through rank narcissism. You know deep in your gut who the cowardly little prick is in your dealings with others. I honestly hope someday you overcome whatever disorder it is that makes you pathetic. But meanwhile, there’s a chance others might buy your bullshit (although they are getting fewer on this board), so again I ask that you continue on as you have. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/310 "2003-12-23T03:15:46Z")
Xeno: You know, I almost posted that you would start using the rolleyes, thing… Oh well. I see that you’re continuing to do just what I said you would do. You’re saying “I’m not the one doing this… or I’m not the one doing that” Congratulations. You’re not doing anything. You offer nothing. You could say “this is what I believe and this is why I believe it,” and discuss it with other people. You could even say “I believe you’re wrong, here’s why and here’s what I offer in it’s place.” Instead you just act like a judgemental prick. You haven’t offered anything or brought anything to the table. You’re not arguing for anything. You’re just trying to tear other people down. You’re total contribution is that my arguments make me a bad person. It’s the lowest shallowest argument. It’s the ugliest choice. That’s what you show to me. That’s the face you reveal to me. After a couple of years of this, I suspect that’s all there is to you. Your criticisms and judgements are empty because you haven’t offered any ideas of your own by which I can judge the merits of your beliefs and weight their worth. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/311 "2003-12-23T03:34:46Z")
You know, **Scylla** , the martyr act is getting a little old. There is a better response to wit and fact and logic and reasoned argument than announcing that you are being bullied and oppressed because of your righteousness. To top it off with comments like this: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*It’s what cowardly little pricks like yourself do. \*\* lead me to believe we are dealing with someone who has the out look of a ten year old with his own ball. In this game it isn’t your ball. We are all allowed to play with it. If you can’t enter into the spirit of the game without crying and wetting your pants every time you get kicked in the shins you aren’t being much of a player and you are slowing down the game. Also. there are some places where anonymous accusations of cowardice are pretty generally abhored. You don’t accuse a man of cowardice unless you are prepared to go out side and prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/312 "2003-12-23T03:58:35Z")
Svin: > [@](#): > > Yes, you did. And then went on to mischaracterize them as implying that WE was arguing that US foreign policy should be pursued in such a manner that “no one’s feelings might ever be hurt.” That was missing the point. He didn’t elaborate beyond the “asshole to the world,” and I don’t think I can be reasonably accused of missing the point on such a generalization. > [@](#): > > Well, I’m not sure about Kosovo, but the Mogadishu example is really a case in point, since it was in fact intended as a projection of American force, one that simply backfired. I’m not really sure it was a projection of power, as I don’t understand what the mission was. We weren’t trying to capture anything or take anything over, and I’m not sure what we were doing beyond presenting targets of our servicemen. > [@](#): > > Ah, I see. Your views are based on historical ignorance. That would explain it. > > You must know better than that, and I’m surprised you would yourself believe such simplistic historical revision. But what does this mean, that the Palestinians “have been allowed to continue to exist?” Do you believe that they should not be allowed that right? What I said was pretty simple and largely correct within the generalizations of such things. The palestinians were offered citizenship. Instead they left, because they figured Israel’s neighbors would wipe her off the map and they’d be able to reclaim the whole thing for themselves. And yes, they should not have been allowed to continue to exist. Not in any genocidal oppressive meaning, but as a force to be dealt with, a group with a viable claim. Having left Israel if one of the host nations wanted to give them a place to stay, fine, but they didn’t deserve any territories or concessions and none should have been granted. > [@](#): > > Not a very nuanced analysis, I fear. Covering a lot of ground in a couple of sentences. A criticism isn’t a rebuttal. > [@](#): > > Quoting again from your previous post, now for the second time: “Pretending that Saddam has not committed atrocious attacks of terror against our allies and us is just stupid.” > > Is this, or is this not, an argument stating that Saddam has “directly attacked the US?” Sure looks like one to me. Well shit, you’re right. I concede that their has not been a direct substantive military attack against the US instigated by Saddam’s Iraq, and apologize for the rhetoric stating otherwise. > [@](#): > > You are walking proof that propaganda really works. **Brachiating** proof. We’ll see if I can walk when I evolve out of the trees. Shit man, let’s have some substance, okay? I’m getting enough insults and mischaracterizations from your hostile wingnut brethren. > [@](#): > > Explain to me again what the hell Iraq has to do with the first WTC bombing or the attack on the Cole. Or are you arguing that, when attacked by big A while walking down the street, the most reasonable response is turn around and beat the living shit out of little B, who has in fact done nothing to you whatsoever? It ain’t that simple. Saddam’s an instigator, a supporter, even if only morally or as a symbol. The rules of engagement that I think apply is that he’s declared himself as a hostile on their side. He happened to have a country at his disposal. He did all kinds of bad shit. He’s more than fair game. Tactically, it would be stupid to leave a threat on the board, and that’s how he posed himself. I think it was the right thing to do, and still feel that way though Bush misrepresented the nature of the threat he presented. > [@](#): > > As far as “invading Libya,” well, you’re right: we just bombed the unholy shit out its capital city, with the express intent of killing it leader and his family, because we suspected that he was involved in someway with the bombing of disco that took the life of one – one! – US marine. Gosh. We sure are permissive. That’s what I call not doing shit. It’s worse than doing nothing. We kill a bunch of people and cause a bunch of damage simply for retaliation’s sake. It serves no useful purpose. Qaddaffi was not hurt. He still controlled a country, the whole nine yards. Nothing was changed or gained. It was no disincentive to Qaddaffi. All of a sudden the game changes and now he thinks the consequences will be that he gets pulled from a spider hole for a flea check and suddenly he’s playing a different tune. This kind of thing is pretty clear evidence that Saddam’s removal has made an effect in the war on terror. We remove Saddam and one of the worst and intractible terrorists of the last 20 years suddenly wants to play nice. > [@](#): > > But the US is responsible as well for bombings of the sort perpetrated by Libya. The CIA has financed bombings to take out leaders that oppose us; some of those bombings have even gone awry and killed innocent bystanders. Does that give these leaders the right to bomb Washington, ya think? The right to try to kill Bush and his family? Yes, I would argue, by your logic it does. You’re missing the point. I’m not a fan of empty retaliation. I wouldn’t mind bombing a nuclear weapons plant because that might accomplish some safeguarding, but retaliation bombing sucks. It doesn’t accomplish anything. If we’re not going to remove somebody from power what good does it do to bomb his country? Only the citizens will suffer. That’s one of the things that was happening in Iraq. Saddam was held in check at the cost of the people of Iraq. It’s a shitty deal. What did they do? Removing Saddam attacks the target that needs to be attacked. Bombing the populace or starving them out and causing them hardships doesn’t really confront Saddam. He still has the resources of a country at his disposal. Why allow the citizens to carry the weight of Saddam’s actions and posturing? > [@](#): > > Regarding your story about Irv and your Grandfather, well… of course I understand your point, but you couldn’t have picked a better example of what I’m talking about. You would model the conduct of US foreign policy on the basis of a boy’s schoolyard brawl. When I was five, I had a fight in a sandbox; doesn’t mean that, at my current age, I would reduce my views on international relations to those events. I think it’s giving international relations to much credit to suggest that they’ve evolved beyond far beyond sandbox level. That’s a level that’s pretty simple and clear and that people can understand. I think if you are looking for a stance as your thesis of International relations it should be simple enough to translate into that level. Simplicity is a virtue. If it was overly simple you’d have a point, but there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with simple and basic. Quite the opposite. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I did, you goofball. After serving my country for two years (have you, by the way? Or do you merely “reap the benefits?”) I left for the sunny shores of Sweden, which is where I now reside, here in the heart of beautiful downtown Mooseville. And while I don’t “fight it,” per se, I do my bit to stand up for what I believe is right. Well good for you. Seriously. I’m not saying love it or leave it. But I feel if you think it’s evil you probably oughtta fight against it, Though the expat deprecating his former home is kind of a worn cliche. > [@](#): > > But we did create them (or more accurately, help create them). That is a matter of undisputed historical fact, even if you don’t buy it. I’ve read **Charlie Wilson’s War** which is pretty good on the subject. We certainly helped them out, I disagree with the creating them thing, though. Having helped them out you might think they’d be grateful. The fact that they feel they were using one Satan to fight another is entirely their own responsibility. > [@](#): > > And under what conditions, do you think, does Muslim extremism flourish? What allows it to gain a foothold among the masses? Rabid fundamentalism, repression, militant extremism, enforced ignorance, poverty, things like that. > [@](#): > > I used to get this a lot back when I lived in the States. As if one can simply pick up and move to another country if one disagrees with US foreign policy Why not? If I thought we were evil, I think I would. What’s to stop me? > [@](#): > > And here I was of the impression that free thought and critical discourse were the very foundation of American civil society, one of the things that supposedly made it “great.” They are. You’re rhetoric is pretty extreme your making us look like Nazi Germany waging a war of conquest and genocide. I doubt that’s your intention (at least I hope not,) but quite a bit of that’s coming across. In the face of the kind of level of evil you’re talking about simply complaining or talking about it seems trite. That level requires action, IMO. Oh, and on your subsequent post, what is happening today in the occupied territories is a different argument than what should have been done in the past. They’ve been there now for a generation, which makes it a different story. I’m saying they shouldn’t have been allowed their period. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/313 "2003-12-23T04:03:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > Nyahh, it’s this same very small group of bitter dirtbags thread after thread. Every now and then they get up enough steam and momentum and cause a trainwreck. For a while I know for a fact that they were planning it and doing it deliberately, because the ringleader made the mistake of emailing my brother (who is somewhat liberal and was disagreeing with me heatedly) and attempted to enlist him. I told him to play along for a while, so I knew what the score was. Now I think they just do it out of grudge-bearing or force of habit. It all goes back to one person, and one conflict, though. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > I have no fucking idea who the Ringleader is. Personally, I always pictured it as a loose disorganizec confederacy, but I’m just speculating. > > Why don’t you just post your table of organization, since you’d know better than I? Let me try to distill this. You say: [ul] [li]Fact: There is a conspiracy against you on this message board[/li][li]Fact: You know this because your brother told you - your _brother_ ?[/li][li]Fact: The Ringleader of the conspirators tried to “enlist” your brother[/li][li]Fact: Your brother became your spy inside the conspiracy for a period[/li][li]Fact: Elucidator is, at least, a conspirator[/li][li]Fact: You say you don’t know who the Ringleader is[/li][li]The conspiracy in question may take the form of a loose Confederacy[/li][/ul] You are a bare-faced liar but that notwithstanding, I hope for your own sake you have some grasp of how unwell the above makes you seem. Look, this is the problem: PARANOIA: Definition: [n] a psychological disorder characterized by delusions of persecution or grandeur - Reading waht you’ve written in this thread it doesn’t seem entirely unreasonable to suggest you’ve got both those bases covered. Just so we all know where we are, would you please take the time to straighten out this conspiracy issue: Do you, for example, stand by everything you’ve written here ? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/314 "2003-12-23T04:13:50Z")
Most of you aren’t Texans, so you lack the inherent empathy and emotional inter-connectedness of such an upbringing. It behooves me to be generous with my insight. No, don’t thank me. Least I can do. Somewhere, along the line, friend **Scylla** formed the idea that a man, a _real_ man, is hard-headed, firm, and relentlessly realistic. Idealism and fantasy is for women, children and liberals. We all know men like this. At best they provide a brisk tonic to prevent simple foolishness. At worst, they are pricks. At one time or another, each and every one is called a prick. (He probably got this notion from a man he loved and respected. That’s usually how it happens.) Hence, **Scylla** expects to be called a prick, would be worried and insecure if he _weren’t_. But his invective gives him away, he tries to be scathing and vicious, to sink the barb deep enough to yank out a chunk of self-esteem, but really…the late lamentable **Collounsbury** had the gift for toxic vitriol because…_he meant it!_. At bottom, our **Scylla** lacks the essential _malice_ that **Coll** has in such abundance, he lacks the one necessary ingredient for venom. When **Scylla** flings an insult my way, I have learned to regard it as the approach of big, brown-eyed goofy puppy, proferring a well-chewed and slobbered tennis ball. (Aside: **Scylla** posted a word or two in another pit thread, started by the esteemed **Stoid** that was thoughtful, intelligent, and stimulating. Considering his gift for domestic comedy as well, I vote we keep him.) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/315 "2003-12-23T04:19:20Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* \*\*You know, **Scylla** , the martyr act is getting a little old. There is a better response to wit and fact and logic and reasoned argument than announcing that you are being bullied and oppressed because of your righteousness. [quote] \*\* And when I get a witty or reasoned response I usually try to respond as it deserves. Insults and mischaracterizations, and attacks get something else. > [@](#): > > If you can’t enter into the spirit of the game without crying and wetting your pants every time you get kicked in the shins you aren’t being much of a player and you are slowing down the game. More criticizing of **me**. Why? Say something about my arguments, address them. Make one of your own. This is fucking stupid. I make an argument, somebody else says I’m a bad person for making it. I say they’re bad for attacking me and not making a contribution of themselves, and now you’re criticizing my criticism of my criticism. What is your point, that I shouldn’t criticize my criticism if I don’t like being criticized? Jesus. > [@](#): > > \*\*Also. there are some places where anonymous accusations of cowardice are pretty generally abhored. You don’t accuse a man of cowardice unless you are prepared to go out side and prove it. \*\* I strongly disagree with your conclusion though your logic is sound. You’re simply not starting at the beginning. Casting the aspersion in the first place without being prepared to go outside is abhorent and cowardly. That’s what I mean by an empty insult. If I call you a name here, it is inherently cowardly because I am unable to back it up by “going outside.” It has no consequences. When I call it cowardly that is not abhorent, it is simply a statement of fact, at least to my eye. Casting insults from safe venues without the possibility of consequence is is cowardly and meaningless. I don’t mean physical consequences either. Quite frankly I’m not willing to step outside over words. There are all kinds of other consequences besides physical ones that reside in the real world to casting insults that simply don’t hold true on the internet. When that’s all that one is doing here, I think cowardice is the logical conclusion. I don’t mind a heated debate or discussion, or even the insult thrown in in the midst of argument. That’s par for the course. Xeno however has not done this. He has offered nothing except the insult. There is no other context, or circumstance. Since it is without consequence it is also without meaning and cowardly in my opinion. So, I stand by that characterization. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/316 "2003-12-23T04:23:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\ ***It had nothing to do with the fact that we we’ve been pulling rogue dictators out of spider holes for flea inspections.** Why the plural? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/317 "2003-12-23T04:23:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Creative\_Munster \* > \*\*Mr. Svinlesha, you are nothing more than an apologist for muslim terrorists. I don’t have the time or inclination to respond in full with your statements right now, but I spit bile when reading your crap. \*\* Why “muslim terrorists”? Would christian terrorists be OK? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/318 "2003-12-23T04:28:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Somewhere, along the line, friend **Scylla** formed the idea that a man, a _real_ man, is hard-headed, firm, and relentlessly realistic. Idealism and fantasy is for women, children and liberals. We all know men like this. At best they provide a brisk tonic to prevent simple foolishness. At worst, they are pricks. At one time or another, each and every one is called a prick. (He probably got this notion from a man he loved and respected. That’s usually how it happens.) Actually I just wasn’t breastfed. > [@](#): > > But his invective gives him away, he tries to be scathing and vicious, to sink the barb deep enough to yank out a chunk of self-esteem, but really…the late lamentable **Collounsbury** had the gift for toxic vitriol because…_he meant it!_. At bottom, our **Scylla** lacks the essential _malice_ that **Coll** has in such abundance, he lacks the one necessary ingredient for venom. I’m sorry. I used to be sincerely venomous. After three years of insults that don’t mean anything being thrown back and forth in a general absence of debate with the same five or six people I’m finding it difficult to get sincerely worked up. Now it’s more like an exercise in creativity. One day perhaps you and Xeno and the rest of three stooges will grow tired of telling me what kind of person I am, or psychoanalyzing me and actually have a discussion. We’ve done that once or twice, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/319 "2003-12-23T04:30:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > I think it’s exactly the opposite. The Palestinians are a continuing problem and rallying point because they have been **allowed to continue to exist** and they are granted this right of existance and entitlement. In case you forget your history, they voluntarily left the country eschewing full citizenship in Israel because they figured that their fellow Arabs would drive them into the sea. Having done so, I think Israel owes them nothing, and their history quite justifies their paranoia. > > They are their arab allies’ problem, not Israel’s. Israel **is** our staunch ally. > > The problems in the Middle East occur IMO because of a deadlock of power. Israel is not permitted to **destroy the enemies** who attack her, so they survive to regroup and try again. **It’s a big mistake to let Israel’s enemies survive**. [My emphasis] What are you calling for here, exactly? Presumably not for the jews to do unto others what was done to them, but it sounds awfully like it. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934/320 "2003-12-23T04:35:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Princhester \* > \*\*Why the plural? \*\* I’m not sure what it’s called, but it’s something like the gerundization of a phrase. i.e. after having won a (singular) tennis match: “I enjoy winning tennis matches” See how the plural creeps in? After pulling a (singular) dictator from a spider hole: “Pulling dictators from spider holes is an example to evil men.” Something like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everythings-cool-saddams-been-arrested/218934.md?page=17)