Eviction moratorium and unpaid rents, are people doomed?

I agree. And I think Biden lost any good will he might have had with SCOTUS, especially Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh gave him a lifeline, basically saying that he wouldn’t strike down the moratorium but would allow it to expire on its own terms, and Biden just lobs the ping pong ball back at him for his generosity. When you do that, the next time you don’t get the courtesy.

But I agree with you. If I was a landlord, I would be asking for money out of Biden’s pocket. He knew this was unconstitutional, but he purposely did it anyways and denied me 1 month of rent. He should be paying for his bad faith.

Biden explicitly stated he expected this - he also explicitly stated he was doing it to buy time to get the funds out to the people - you call it ‘political benefits’ - I call it trying to help the people in need.

What ‘constitutional right’ did he knowingly violate?

You know, not every instance of unconstitutionality has to be a violation of people’s rights. It can be the government or an agency or official acting outside its enumerated powers or its legal authority. And it can be a matter of this particular instance of such action falling afoul of the constitution, not necessarily that every possible variation is invalid from the start.

So it can i fact be a matter that the laws creating the CDC do not empower it to keep this going indefinitely, absent Congress enacting otherwise, ans the Court is saying “you want this to go on? Legislate, then!”.

Sure, but that was a direct quote of octopus who specifically used the phrase “knowingly violating constitutional rights”.

First, I am not a lawyer, much less a Constitutional one.

That being said, there’s a very good argument it qualifies as a “taking” for Constitutional purposes, “without due process of law.” For landlords, there is no appeal and no distinction made on whether the tenant has actual financial difficulties. In theory this might be mitigated by the pandemic - but after a year-and-a-half, it’s difficult to treat this as a temporary, emergency measure. In addition, it’s extremely suspect Constitutionally that an executive-branch department could even lawfully issue the order in the first place. (I’ll come back to this point.)

The trick is whether or not the government took anything in the process. In this case, the government can argue that the government didn’t personally gain by doing so, instead the benefit went to others. And second, the money is still, in theory, owed to the landlords so there is no problem. I would find both of these arguments flawed. I believe the first is definitely invalid; the Constitution resists the use or abuse of government power and that is not changed by the question of who would benefit from its, just as it cannot bargain away Constitutional rights in a treaty. That said, not being a Constitutional lawyer I have no idea if that’s ever been litigated.

For the second point, it’s not guaranteed that a court would side with landlords but, “if regulation goes too far it will be recognized as a taking.” [See
Regulatory Takings | U.S. Constitution Annotated | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute ] In this instance, there are several ways the government could have mitigated the property loss but it has not yet chosen to do so. However, the issue may functionally turn on whether or not the landlords are experience a “taking” based on whether the tenant just doesn’t pay. This is a very tricky question because theory and practice may be miles away on this point. In theory the landlord may have a collectible debt. In practice, there’s good odds they cannot actually collect. And I have no idea how the courts would ever deal with the potential flood of lawsuits. [Edit: I also have no idea what kind of precedent courts would pick to deal with the issue. Common Good because pandemic? Physical invasion because it involves actual, physical property with people living in it? No clue.]

Another issue is whether the moratorium was lawful to the begin with. The Commerce clause may have been stretched beyond sane meaning by judicial practice, but it’s difficult to argue that even Congress can decide on regulations affecting rent payments between owners and tenants living in a single state. At that point you’re basically arguing that the Federal Government has unlimited authority; no commerce anywhere at any time could not also be so regulated. And for a department whose authority is over disease to do so as a blanket action is a deep problem, and not a precedent I would like to see extended. Presumably then any agency might start making its own pronouncements at will, so long as the executive feels like it.

I tried to leave most of the practical problems at the door in my response, but wow do those also exist.

Their were funds available to pay the landlords on behalf of the tenants - and a process to get said funds. This was all earmarked as part of the covid relief effort(s), therefore there was no ‘taking’ by the gvt or the tenants (unless they failed to get said funds).

Except the landlords themselves didn’t actually have any way to access said funds directly as far as I can tell, which creates something of a problem. They can’t actually force tenants to get them.

The 5th.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Was anything taken?

The government didn’t take the property; they just regulated “interstate commerce”.

Quite so. The tenant has to be the one who applies for the assistance – and then if approved the government will cut a check on your behalf to the landlord. Which makes sense in that you don’t want to create an incentive for landlords to create paper tenants.

But more troubling at this point, is that in this case, similarly to the unemployment or Medicaid benefits, it is the state and local housing agencies who actually run the programs to put the benefit in the hands of the applicant and the process to put the policy in place has been slow in much of the nation, so most of the alloted funds are still sitting in government accounts rather than going to address the problem at hand.

It may be that in a way, by establishing the blanket ban on evictions (and trying the modified version that ended up failing) the goverment entities ended up disincentivizing themselves from acting with a sense of urgency in delivering the aid.

Lol. Well, Supreme Court said otherwise. As predicted.

Ya know, it would be a lot more convincing if you quoted, and linked to, the part of the case where it says “This violates the 5th Amendment.” . . . just sayin’.

Yes. What is valuable about your property? If I come walking in, you can tell me to get out, right? That’s probably the single most valuable property right. You can exclude others and have it to yourself.

The government told the landlords that they didn’t have this right. That despite the tenants’ non-payment “we” as the public needed them to keep them in the home that the landlord owned. That is taking property for public use and is required to be compensated.

AND in addition, if we are going to have such a law, it should be our elected representatives enacting it so if we don’t like it we can vote them out next time. Not an executive branch scratching through an ancient law, looking at it sideways, and finding a justification for their power grab therein.

Nothing was taken. Tennent debt was still accruing to the landlord and the government tried to institute a system to compensate the landlords.

Maybe a bad system but it was not a government taking so not a constitutional violation.

If I try to pay you and fail, were you justly compensated? It doesn’t matter that the tenant still legally owed me the debt. Their contract said to pay on the first of the month. They didn’t. They are in breach. It’s my house, so get out.

It matters as a constitutional question.

The government did not “take” anything.

If you want to argue it was a shitty policy that is different.

Of course they did. That is my house. The guy that isn’t paying me is living in it. I can’t live in it. I can’t throw him out and have someone pay me to live in it. They took my house. It has no economic value to me because I can’t make the guy pay his rent. Textbook taking.

Not it is not.

A tenant/landlord agreement is not the same thing as someone living in your house. Never has been for ages.

The government can regulate such contracts. Also nothing new.

What? I don’t own that house? And we agree he isn’t abiding my the agreement, but the government says I can’t throw him out. I can’t do anything with that house, but it wasn’t a taking? How so?