# Evidence for a larger home-protection gun... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 28, 2006, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224 "2006-03-28T07:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tomcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Tomcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tomcat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/1 "2006-03-28T07:29:26Z")
In Denver, a home intruder was shot in the chest with a [.410 shotgun blast](http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/8287436/detail.html), seemingly at close quarters, and continued to enter the home and try to kill the father and 9-yr old son…He was finally stopped by a 30.06, but not until the intruder managed to shoot his 30-30 four times through the door and into the bedroom. I wonder if a .12 guage would have stopped him, or possibly two .410 shells? It could have been a single shot .410 loaded with snake-shot. If it had been a handgun then I think the father would have unloaded a few shots into him. But daaaaaaammmmnnn, a point-blank .410 to the chest didn’t stop the guy? Makes me reconsider what I will buy for home protection. -Tcat ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/2 "2006-03-28T12:38:35Z")
It was probably bird shot in the .410. The intruder would have been sucking more wind if a slug/buck shot was used. If the round in question isn’t going to be effective on deer-sized game, which a .410 with shot wouldn’t be, then I wouldn’t expect it to do much to a grown man either. If you wouldn’t take that gun/round combo out hunting deer, don’t rely on it to stop an intruder either. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/3 "2006-03-28T13:38:49Z")
The accepted rule for shooting people with a small bore shotgun charged with birdshot is to go for the face. A round of No 8 shot from a 410 is not likely to penetrate heavy clothing but it will raise all hell with eyes. See for example the practice of Rocky Mountain packers and our own dear Vice-president. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/4 "2006-03-28T13:40:39Z")
You do know a .410 is much smaller than a 12 guage, don’t you? If it was named in the guage convention, it would be a 67 guage. It is the smallest and lightest shotgun around. I have seen seven-year-olds shoot them. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/5 "2006-03-28T14:08:52Z")
I think **Tomcat** likely does know that, as he wondered whether a single 12-gauge round or two .410s would have done the trick (despite the “.12” typo). Yeah, I was guessing that the .410 was loaded for small vermin. I’m not sure whether even a 12-bore birdshot round would have the stopping power. (Based on what I’ve read over the years. I am not a gun owner.) ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/6 "2006-03-28T15:25:46Z")
It’d be interesting to know the distance at which the intruder was shot and what type of load the .410 had. .410 shells IME are usually found to be loaded with No.6 game loads shot and No. 8 skeet loads. Buckshot and slug loads are available but your local Wally World might not carry them. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/7 "2006-03-28T15:36:14Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > You do know a .410 is much smaller than a 12 guage, don’t you?.. It is the smallest and lightest shotgun around. Is it smaller than the one Cheney shot his friend with? (That’s not meant to be a, um, potshot. I’m just curious.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/8 "2006-03-28T15:41:19Z")
Like I said, it is the smallest and lightest commercially available shotgun. It is much amaller than the 28-guage that Dick Cheney was using. I wouldn’t want to use either one for home defense. For home defense I currently have a .45 caliber handgun. I do own a 12-guage shotgun, but it isn’t a suitable home defense weapon because it is inaccessable (kept in a keyed lock safe) and is double barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/9 "2006-03-28T15:45:01Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Is it smaller than the one Cheney shot his friend with? (That’s not meant to be a, um, potshot. I’m just curious.) Yes. .549 bore for the 28 gauge. .41 for the .410 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/10 "2006-03-28T15:57:57Z")
Folks get shot with guns of all sizes and don’t have the common courtesy to fall right down. Even so, a .410 (especially a single shot) wouldn’t be high on my list of home defense weapons. Buckshot or a slug gets it up off its face and onto its knees, but I believe I’d still rather have a handgun, even one in the .380/ 9mm Makarov class. Regardless of caliber, good shot placement is the first order of business, with additional rounds immediately available in case of poor performance. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/11 "2006-03-28T16:04:07Z")
He should have racked the slide first to scare the intruder away… 😉 Leaving aside all other questions about the logic and statistics of home defense, then yes, a 410 is much too small to be used for home defense. I’d go with my 1911 loaded with Glazer Safety Slugs, personally. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/12 "2006-03-28T16:14:33Z")
A 410 is a puss gun to be using for home defense. Why bother? If you plan on using a gun for home defense you better be prepared to kill somebody rather than just giving them a superficial wound. A 20 gauge would probably be adequate with the right shot loaded but I don’t really see the point in that either. The best thing to go for is a pump 12 gauge. The sound of the pump being cycled should end most situation by itself. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/13 "2006-03-28T16:22:07Z")
It being Colorado, the .410 was probably loaded with a snake load. Most of the pellets would fail to penetrate what was likely heavy winter clothing. And armed with a .30-.30? I would have gone to the .30-06 immediately. Tell my son to call 911 and take the guy down at once with the heaviest weapon I have. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/14 "2006-03-28T16:22:20Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > A 410 is a puss gun to be using for home defense. Why bother? If you plan on using a gun for home defense you better be prepared to kill somebody rather than just giving them a superficial wound. A 20 gauge would probably be adequate with the right shot loaded but I don’t really see the point in that either. The best thing to go for is a pump 12 gauge. The sound of the pump being cycled should end most situation by itself. I doubt that a human would relize the difference between 00 12ga buckshot and No. 2 buck from a 20. A good hit at house distances would be devastating with a 20ga. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/15 "2006-03-28T16:39:41Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Like I said, it is the smallest and lightest commercially available shotgun. It is much amaller than the 28-guage that Dick Cheney was using. Thanks. I was confused because some reports ([example](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11340558/)) said “\*\*.\*\*28 gauge” - I take it that dot shouldn’t be there. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/16 "2006-03-28T18:37:23Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The sound of the pump being cycled should end most situation by itself. That’s funny, I thought this took place in Colorado, not Hollywood. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/17 "2006-03-28T18:46:33Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > That’s funny, I thought this took place in Colorado, not Hollywood. 🙂 That isn’t a joke. A 12 gauge being pumped is one of the scariest sounds known to man. You really can diffuse situations just like that. How would you like to hear that coming from somewhere in your house at night? ---
**Author:** ![Ol\_Gaffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Ol\_Gaffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ol_Gaffer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/18 "2006-03-28T19:32:46Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That isn’t a joke. A 12 gauge being pumped is one of the scariest sounds known to man. You really can diffuse situations just like that. How would you like to hear that coming from somewhere in your house at night? C’mon boys. We’re not starting this again are we? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/19 "2006-03-28T19:41:21Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That isn’t a joke. A 12 gauge being pumped is one of the scariest sounds known to man. You really can diffuse situations just like that. How would you like to hear that coming from somewhere in your house at night? Here’s something I picked up by talking with several friends who are convicted criminals and did some time: Most crooks know exactly dick about guns. They wouldn’t recognize the sound of a shotgun being pumped as something they should fear. In the case of the guy in the OP, since getting shot didn’t do much to scare him off, I’m guessing the sound of a shotgun being racked would have had pretty unimpressive results. …and for the umpteenth time, I wish this turd of disinformation would quit getting passed off as truth and good advice. Trying to scare off an invader with the sound of a shotgun slide is not just bad tactics. It’s stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224/20 "2006-03-28T20:16:49Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > …and for the umpteenth time, I wish this turd of disinformation would quit getting passed off as truth and good advice. Trying to scare off an invader with the sound of a shotgun slide is not just bad tactics. It’s stupid. Well, my father was a gun dealer growing up and I certainly know the sound well. It would scare the piss out of me so, if you are trying to scare me out of your house, it would probably work. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-a-larger-home-protection-gun/350224.md?page=2)