# evidence for god? some one said so. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896 "2013-01-21T08:55:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/301 "2013-02-07T12:25:02Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Zoe, you’re right about having an extra sense after a while. I consider it a specialized form of intuition. > > I’m not sure what I should call it either. Spider sense. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/302 "2013-02-07T12:25:33Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Zoe, you’re right about having an extra sense after a while. I consider it a specialized form of intuition. > > I’m not sure what I should call it either. Imagination? Self-deception? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/303 "2013-02-07T12:26:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Spider sense. Been done, and it’s probably copyrighted. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/304 "2013-02-07T12:38:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Been done, and it’s probably copyrighted. Boll weevil sense then. ---
**Author:** ![dove77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dove77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dove77)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/305 "2013-02-07T13:45:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m sure you recognize that this doesn’t strike us atheists as evidence of God. I’m very interested in life around us, its diversity, and its origins, but life’s mere existence says nothing about how or why it came about. > > In addition, us atheists (obviously) do not accept that any commandments were delivered to humans by God. but you have to admit the life all around you came from some source. The life that continues in us and around us is not our own doing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/306 "2013-02-07T13:50:34Z")
> [@dove77](#): > > but you have to admit the life all around you came from some source. The life that continues in us and around us is not our own doing. I’m not in the habit of “admitting” things without strong evidence that such things are true. In the meantime I am willing to say, “I don’t know yet”. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/307 "2013-02-07T13:53:36Z")
> [@dove77](#): > > but you have to admit the life all around you came from some source. True, that source is probably the sea. Maybe a mud puddle somewhere. > [@](#): > > The life that continues in us and around us is not our own doing. Not clear what you mean by this? Do you mean life is kept going by an outside force? It’s not capable of sustaining itself? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/308 "2013-02-07T14:00:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And what evidence came to you that you can pass on to us? I will try to answer serious rational questions: unconditional love came to me. But I can’t explain it, I can only feel it and live it as best I can. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/309 "2013-02-07T14:06:12Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I will try to answer serious rational questions: unconditional love came to me. But I can’t explain it, I can only feel it and live it as best I can. Mine was a serious rational question, considering the actual topic of this thread. Do you have anything the to say about the actual topic? Do you have evidence that can be presented to others? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/310 "2013-02-07T15:48:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Mine was a serious rational question, considering the actual topic of this thread. Do you have anything the to say about the actual topic? Do you have evidence that can be presented to others? Using words to explain what God’s unconditional love feels like to me will not suffice. Only God can present His love to others. So I guess I have nothing for you. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/311 "2013-02-07T19:28:04Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I will try to answer serious rational questions: unconditional love came to me. But I can’t explain it, I can only feel it and live it as best I can. soooo > [@Critical1](#): > > any evidence to be provided for the existence of anything from the realm of the supernatural must conform to > basic scientific standards for “evidence” i.e. it must be testable, as in outside of your skull and within > the realm of reality that others have access to it and can repeat the test you used to produce said evidence. This is unclear? (note **lekatt** is hardly the only one doing this in the thread) this is bias in its purest form. You are engaged in special pleading like a few others in the thread and it is not proof of anything or evidence of anything. From Wiki “A cognitive bias is the human tendency to make systematic decisions in certain circumstances based on cognitive factors rather than evidence. Bias arises from various processes that are sometimes difficult to distinguish. These processes include information-processing shortcuts, motivational factors, and social influence.[1] Such biases can result from information-processing shortcuts called heuristics. They include errors in judgment, social attribution, and memory. Cognitive biases are a common outcome of human thought, and often drastically skew the reliability of anecdotal and legal evidence. It is a phenomenon studied in cognitive science and social psychology. A cognitive bias also has the tendency to make systematic decisions in certain situations.” The short version of this is simply that humans are not by their nature clear rational thinking creatures. We require training and careful application of well established rules to see past our own biases to arrive at anything logical at all. An example of this is known as the [Availability cascade](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_cascade), the driving force behind American acceptance of intelligent design and creationism being given equal or greater validity than evolution in spite of the astronomical difference in actual evidence for evolution v the total and complete lack of evidence for the others. So far in 7 pages there have been zero posts that even begin to meet the basic criteria for evidence. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/312 "2013-02-07T19:40:08Z")
I agree with you that proof has not been shown. I am not sure what you mean by bias. I did not ask to be shown His unconditional love. I believe there is more to this world than science can measure, some things can only be felt. Our intuitive feelings are there for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/313 "2013-02-07T19:45:41Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I agree with you that proof has not been shown. I am not sure what you mean by bias. I did not ask to be shown His unconditional love. I believe there is more to this world than science can measure, some things can only be felt. Our intuitive feelings are there for a reason. 1. The thread is asking for _evidence_, not _proof_. 2. You(and a couple ofothers) are ingoring the purpose of this thread and are witnessing instead. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/314 "2013-02-07T19:48:01Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I am not sure what you mean by bias. > [@Critical1](#): > > From Wiki “A cognitive bias is the human tendency to make systematic decisions in certain circumstances based on cognitive factors rather than evidence. Bias arises from various processes that are sometimes difficult to distinguish. These processes include information-processing shortcuts, motivational factors, and social influence.[1] Such biases can result from information-processing shortcuts called heuristics. They include errors in judgment, social attribution, and memory. Cognitive biases are a common outcome of human thought, and often drastically skew the reliability of anecdotal and legal evidence. It is a phenomenon studied in cognitive science and social psychology. A cognitive bias also has the tendency to make systematic decisions in certain situations.” > > The short version of this is simply that humans are not by their nature clear rational thinking creatures. We require training and careful application of well established rules to see past our own biases to arrive at anything logical at all. An example of this is known as the [Availability cascade](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_cascade), the driving force behind American acceptance of intelligent design and creationism being given equal or greater validity than evolution in spite of the astronomical difference in actual evidence for evolution v the total and complete lack of evidence for the others. that is pretty much exactly what I mean by bias. Our intuitive feelings are lying to us on a constant basis. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/315 "2013-02-07T19:49:14Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > The short version of this is simply that humans are not by their nature clear rational thinking creatures. We require training and careful application of well established rules to see past our own biases to arrive at anything logical at all. An example of this is known as the [Availability cascade](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_cascade), the driving force behind American acceptance of intelligent design and creationism being given equal or greater validity than evolution in spite of the astronomical difference in actual evidence for evolution v the total and complete lack of evidence for the others. I’ve never thought about the use of availability in this context before, but it makes sense - and even just plain old availability. Consider the state of the average American, not just a fundamentalist. On the scientific side they have information they may have gleaned from PBS, or long ago in school, or maybe from a book. But they have a lot more images of the animals entering the ark, or Adam and Eve. These are much more prevalent in our society, alas. So no wonder even those without strong feelings will think of creationism. This argues that we might be able to convince the non-rabid brand of Christian about evolution if we had some good images. Right now we have the fish walking out of the pond and eventually turning to man while they got naked Adam and Eve in the garden. We need to draw some sexy cavewomen or something. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/316 "2013-02-07T19:55:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. The thread is asking for _evidence_, not _proof_. > 2. You(and a couple ofothers) are ingoring the purpose of this thread and are witnessing instead. **lekatt** ’s personal experiences are evidence, just not very compelling evidence. He’s admitted that it represents the sum of his evidence; I applaud your honesty, **lekatt**. > [@Voyager](#): > > We need to draw some sexy cavewomen or something. Just make [_One Million Years B.C._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raquel_welch_1millionyearsbc.jpg) part of the science curriculum. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/317 "2013-02-07T20:06:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’ve never thought about the use of availability in this context before, but it makes sense - and even just plain old availability. Consider the state of the average American, not just a fundamentalist. On the scientific side they have information they may have gleaned from PBS, or long ago in school, or maybe from a book. But they have a lot more images of the animals entering the ark, or Adam and Eve. These are much more prevalent in our society, alas. So no wonder even those without strong feelings will think of creationism. > > This argues that we might be able to convince the non-rabid brand of Christian about evolution if we had some good images. Right now we have the fish walking out of the pond and eventually turning to man while they got naked Adam and Eve in the garden. We need to draw some sexy cavewomen or something. I agree, plain old Availability Heuristic is also a part of the problem, and as usual the solution is proper education instead of the usual crappy education we have now. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > **lekatt** ’s personal experiences are evidence, just not very compelling evidence. He’s admitted that it represents the sum of his evidence; I applaud your honesty, **lekatt**. Once again the op specifies evidence that exists “outside” of your (or his, or anyone elses) skull. Anything going on inside the skull is almost certainly delusional in this regard. That movie actually needs a remake! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/318 "2013-02-07T20:08:34Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Once again the op specifies evidence that exists “outside” of your (or his, or anyone elses) skull. Anything going on inside the skull is almost certainly delusional in this regard. So it does; sorry, missed or forgot that part. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/319 "2013-02-07T20:12:10Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Just make [_One Million Years B.C._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raquel_welch_1millionyearsbc.jpg) part of the science curriculum. We’d have to get rid of the dinosaur though. But you may be right - Raquel was taped to the ceiling of my dorm room freshman year, which could explain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/320 "2013-02-07T20:19:30Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > We’d have to get rid of the dinosaur though. But you may be right - Raquel was taped to the ceiling of my dorm room freshman year, which could explain a lot. Like all those arrests for kidnapping. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=17)