# evidence for god? some one said so. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896 "2013-01-21T08:55:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/361 "2013-02-08T16:45:27Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > He did, he PM’ed me. I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/362 "2013-02-08T16:59:02Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > 80% of those that put on the [God Helmet](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y02UlkYjSi0) whether believer or not, will experience such hallucinations and delusions that are simply in your head. But I know lekatt, yours was really special and prefer not to call it that. Okay. Shermer’s [out of body experiment](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCVzz96zKA0) with the God Helmet. > > For those that experience more than just a light, and have the OBE, there are researchers that have made simple tests to see if such people that experience these out of body experiences quite frequently really are having an in or out of body experience. It can be as simple as placing a number on a top shelf for one to read. If this was really happening, surely they would be able to read off the number. Under the proper protocol, why doesn’t anybody ever get it right, lekatt? They do get it right, lots of them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/363 "2013-02-08T17:01:29Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > They do get it right, lots of them. Name one that got it right. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/364 "2013-02-08T17:20:58Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > I had more general education in mind. Like teaching middle school kids about things like say the availability cascade and other biases. Teaching fallacy and other logical failings. We are all born with a brain, why the hell are we not passing out owners manuals? There is no good reason not to teach this stuff in middle/high school and it sure as hell would be more useful in life than french class. Got you. That would be awesome. My daughter and I have taught this stuff to engineers. They didn’t believe that they were subject to these things, being logical thinkers, until we did an anchoring experiment in class which came up with statistically significant results for n = 20. Then they believed. It should go along with logical thinking, because it shows how we fool ourselves. There was an example in the Times letter column yesterday. David Brooks had a column mentioning the free throw hot streak myth - you know, that people have the same chance of hitting the next free throw no matter whether or not they hit the last n. A basketball coach wrote in disputing it, since it was obvious to him that when a player gets coordinated they hit more. He never mentioned that the statistics say otherwise - I bet he never even understood that his plausible explanation just didn’t match reality. Anyhow, great idea. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/365 "2013-02-08T17:30:40Z")
> [@dove77](#): > > the evidence of god is all around you. Time is on our side of realizing this. Think of the commandments, revealed to us through moses as addressing every conceivable willful mistake we could ever make in our life. To sin is to miss the mark, to shoot an arrow where it should never have been aimed. That being said, the ramifications of missing the mark is that things go array, go away from their intended destination which must always be toward God. Picture God as the sun and we need the sun to grow, to live, to be healthy in our soul , peaceful, safe, etc. Anything we do to move away from God results eventually in the lack of all those thing, disorder, restlessness, anxiety, , what we get instead of joy is betrayal, shame, guilt, suffering, dissappointments, you name it. In our journey through life touched by either ways we choose to go along our journey we may never have heard of christ or god and yet we have an inner knowing that tells us which way we choose, and those around us choose, moves toward peace. This is not fact, the human persons who wrote or taught this is what you are really believing. That can be proven! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/366 "2013-02-08T17:36:23Z")
> [@dove77](#): > > as far as evidence, science is the study of what already is, and as far as the creation of God , so atheists beleive if god is real something had to create God? so then atheists beleive all things were created by nothing? We are incapable of comprehending the idea that God always was and that we will never know , but by faith alone, what that means. It is said in scripture that Jesus said in order to get into the kingdom of heaven we must become like little children. Children trust without understanding . One does not have to be educated or many other things in order to know God. In fact all the books in the world, all the education can do nothing for anyone who does not choose to trust without physical evidence. If God is a being, there had to be a place for it to be, before he/she could exist. Who created existence? God could not have, because he had to have a place before he could exist, just as all that is on earth, ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/367 "2013-02-08T17:51:52Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I stood in the presence of the Creator and felt the unconditional love emanating from Him. It is not so unusual, millions have done so. His love awakened the love He placed within me and I was never the same again. We all have the Creator’s unconditional love within us. Some connect with it naturally while others find it only in moments of great distress. Like a soldier that falls on a grenade to save others. Like the thousands that came to the aid of Twin Towers just because they wanted too, Like teachers in the recent mass shootings protecting the children with their own bodies. It is within everyone, finding it or connecting with it changes your life forever. You mean you belive you stood in the presence of a Creator, that isn’t evidence, just Faith. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/368 "2013-02-08T18:07:31Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > You mean you belive you stood in the presence of a Creator, that isn’t evidence, just Faith. No, I knew I was in the presence of the Creator. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/369 "2013-02-08T18:10:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Name one that got it right. Dr. Raymond Moody, Dr. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, Dr. Melvin Morse, Dr. Kenneth Ring, Dr. Charles T. Tart, Dr. Jeffrey Long, Dr. Peter Fenwick, Dr. Penny Sartori, Dr. Bruce Greyson, Dr. Sam Parnia, Dr. Michael Sabom, Dr. Pim Van Lommel, ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/370 "2013-02-08T18:16:58Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Dr. Raymond Moody, > Dr. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, > Dr. Melvin Morse, > Dr. Kenneth Ring, > Dr. Charles T. Tart, > Dr. Jeffrey Long, > Dr. Peter Fenwick, > Dr. Penny Sartori, > Dr. Bruce Greyson, > Dr. Sam Parnia, > Dr. Michael Sabom, > Dr. Pim Van Lommel, You missed the words, “proper protocol.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/371 "2013-02-08T18:18:17Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Dr. Raymond Moody, > Dr. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, > Dr. Melvin Morse, > Dr. Kenneth Ring, > Dr. Charles T. Tart, > Dr. Jeffrey Long, > Dr. Peter Fenwick, > Dr. Penny Sartori, > Dr. Bruce Greyson, > Dr. Sam Parnia, > Dr. Michael Sabom, > Dr. Pim Van Lommel, ONE. Just pick out the one you think best got it right. Throwing a list of names out so we can play “No? Well, what about _that_ one?” for thirty pages just ain’t in the cards-not playing that game with you again. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/372 "2013-02-08T18:24:37Z")
I’m familiar with some of these names. Randi has already done a number on Tart. With Moody, his work said when others did experience a religious figure at the end of the tunnel or light, it was always Jesus. But others have shown that Muslims often experience Muhammad. Give us your best one, and let’s look at the protocol set up, and see who was present. I’m specifically looking for someone with OBE’s that gets the number right, and this work has been replicated by others. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/373 "2013-02-08T18:39:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > ONE. Just pick out the one you think best got it right. Throwing a list of names out so we can play “No? Well, what about _that_ one?” for thirty pages just ain’t in the cards-not playing that game with you again. They are all researchers who got it right. Just pick them all and read their research. I won’t give links. Been down that road here before. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/374 "2013-02-08T18:43:10Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > They are all researchers who got it right. Just pick them all and read their research. I won’t give links. Been down that road here before. Damn right we’ve been down that road before, and you don’t get to start over as if none of it happened. It’s your claim, so you provide your best cite. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/375 "2013-02-08T20:32:45Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > No, I knew I was in the presence of the Creator. So did many wearing the God Helmet. Moody is noted for saying “no one has a horrifying experience.” You claim the same. This simple isn’t true. Researchers show 15% do have a horrifying experience. Also the God Helmet with Persinger showed that depending on which temporal lobe he was stimulating, he could induce his participants to experience a good or bad trip. So why are Moody and you still claiming this? I went through the first half of your names, and it was a bit amusing what I found, but still haven’t found what you claimed, so I won’t bother with the second half. Your Dr. Jeffrey Long made one of the most amazing claims, but was short on details. He says of the 60 participants he looked into while they were in their OBE, he went to investigate such places they were said to have been, and he says that it verified that their observations were absolutely correct in every detail. And to think that Blackmore and others have tried for decades to find just one person to be able to read a number on a top shelf, and still is looking to get their first hit. If you don’t give us one good solid cite for what you claimed, I think most will assume you’ve been whistling Dixie yet again. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/376 "2013-02-08T20:37:01Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > No, I knew I was in the presence of the Creator. how? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/377 "2013-02-08T21:35:54Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > So did many wearing the God Helmet. > > Moody is noted for saying “no one has a horrifying experience.” You claim the same. This simple isn’t true. Researchers show 15% do have a horrifying experience. Also the God Helmet with Persinger showed that depending on which temporal lobe he was stimulating, he could induce his participants to experience a good or bad trip. So why are Moody and you still claiming this? > > I went through the first half of your names, and it was a bit amusing what I found, but still haven’t found what you claimed, so I won’t bother with the second half. > > Your Dr. Jeffrey Long made one of the most amazing claims, but was short on details. He says of the 60 participants he looked into while they were in their OBE, he went to investigate such places they were said to have been, and he says that it verified that their observations were absolutely correct in every detail. And to think that Blackmore and others have tried for decades to find just one person to be able to read a number on a top shelf, and still is looking to get their first hit. > > If you don’t give us one good solid cite for what you claimed, I think most will assume you’ve been whistling Dixie yet again. I did not post here to change your beliefs, that is not my goal. If you found nothing believable to you so be it. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/378 "2013-02-08T21:37:00Z")
> [@simster](#): > > how? Awesome! what else can I say. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/379 "2013-02-08T21:43:04Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Awesome! what else can I say. well, you can describe how you ‘knew’ it? had you had other experiences with beings of light that were not the creator? what was your frame of reference for the knowledge that this one ‘was’ the creator ? If this was your first and only visit from the ‘creator’ - its quite a leap to believe that you had enough information to conclude what this thing was… did he show you ID? DNA samples? what? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/380 "2013-02-08T22:12:09Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I did not post here to change your beliefs, that is not my goal. > > If you found nothing believable to you so be it. Why do so many woosters post this? The only reasons I can think of to keep posting unsubstiated stuff like this is to convince people that you either have done something special, seen something special, or _are_ something special. I have never seen one say to anyone that actually agrees with them that they aren’t trying to convince anybody of anything-it only pops up when people question them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=20)