# evidence for god? some one said so. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896 "2013-01-21T08:55:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/381 "2013-02-08T23:52:17Z")
> [@simster](#): > > well, you can describe how you ‘knew’ it? had you had other experiences with beings of light that were not the creator? what was your frame of reference for the knowledge that this one ‘was’ the creator ? If this was your first and only visit from the ‘creator’ - its quite a leap to believe that you had enough information to conclude what this thing was… did he show you ID? DNA samples? what? Well I asked Him if He was the head Honcho and He said yes. No I didn’t get His ID or DNA but I knew He was God in every part of my being. Like a child knows its Father. Love ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/382 "2013-02-08T23:54:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why do so many woosters post this? The only reasons I can think of to keep posting unsubstiated stuff like this is to convince people that you either have done something special, seen something special, or _are_ something special. I have never seen one say to anyone that actually agrees with them that they aren’t trying to convince anybody of anything-it only pops up when people question them. I say that because I mean it, no more, no less. I just can’t think of any reason why your beliefs should matter to me. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/383 "2013-02-09T00:41:36Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > No, I knew I was in the presence of the Creator. > [@simster](#): > > how? He had a big Alpha and Omega embroidered on his t-shirt. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/384 "2013-02-09T00:52:00Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Well I asked Him if He was the head Honcho and He said yes. No I didn’t get His ID or DNA but I knew He was God in every part of my being. Like a child knows its Father. Love I thank you for your honesty - but you realize of course that this is circular - “he is because he says he is” - but if you believe it - fine, I guess - I think you have said before that you don’t take the bible literally, but for others that do, you should know: [QUOTE= 2 Corinthians 11:14] And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/385 "2013-02-09T01:55:53Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I thank you for your honesty - but you realize of course that this is circular - “he is because he says he is” - but if you believe it - fine, I guess . . . This is one problem with “very powerful entities.” It isn’t all that hard to deceive humans. There was a Star Trek (Next Gen) episode where a “very powerful entity” (VPE?) deceived an entire world into believing she was their theological devil. If Zeus existed, or Odin, he could probably trick us into thinking he was “The Almighty God.” Hell, he could probably imprint the belief forcibly right on to our brains. “You WILL believe!” Like drugs, but more effective. The problem of “false positives” is significant here. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/386 "2013-02-09T03:27:39Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This is one problem with “very powerful entities.” It isn’t all that hard to deceive humans. There was a Star Trek (Next Gen) episode where a “very powerful entity” (VPE?) deceived an entire world into believing she was their theological devil. If Zeus existed, or Odin, he could probably trick us into thinking he was “The Almighty God.” > > Hell, he could probably imprint the belief forcibly right on to our brains. “You WILL believe!” Like drugs, but more effective. > > The problem of “false positives” is significant here. QFT, and exactly the point I was trying to make - ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/387 "2013-02-09T03:30:35Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Well I asked Him if He was the head Honcho and He said yes. No I didn’t get His ID or DNA but I knew He was God in every part of my being. Like a child knows its Father. Love Did it happen in the middle of the night, like previous incidents? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/388 "2013-02-09T12:36:52Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > No, I knew I was in the presence of the Creator. Still your belief that it was the creator ,or you could prove it, and there is not yet any proof that anything exists that is of a god, just belief. It gives you something to cling to and that is good for you, but it doesn’t prove anyhting except you had a feeling you were in the presence of a creator. Maybe the creator was just a gas, light, or your imagination. what is truly known can be proven, until then it is just belief or desire. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/389 "2013-02-09T12:49:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Did it happen in the middle of the night, like previous incidents? The father you speak of( that you say is love),was named that by another human being , this father of yours has never revealed hiself to all people, nor does he act like a good father that we humans know as our father. Most (if not all) good fathers,make them selves known to all his children ,and they don’t go just by faith but actual fact that can be proven by DNA! This seems to help you so for you it is a good,but many others like facts,so until it is a proven fact many will not see it your way until you have more to say than you feel it! ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/390 "2013-02-09T13:40:03Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Still your belief that it was the creator ,or you could prove it, and there is not yet any proof that anything exists that is of a god, just belief. It gives you something to cling to and that is good for you, but it doesn’t prove anyhting except you had a feeling you were in the presence of a creator. Maybe the creator was just a gas, light, or your imagination. what is truly known can be proven, until then it is just belief or desire. To paraphrase Human Action, “…there is lack of evidence of the existence of God.” That’s true, but it’s important to decide what is acceptable evidence. If you decide that only empirical evidence is acceptable then the lack of evidence is apparent. But if intuition and revelation are acceptable forms of evidence then the existence of God is obvious. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/391 "2013-02-09T14:15:29Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I was surrounded by a brilliant light, the light was love and compassion, it was also knowledge of all things. It entered my being and imparted its love and knowledge as energy merges with energy. I knew I was in the presence of God but did not see Him. When the experience was over much of the knowledge could not be remembered, but the love was forever. I once had a similar experience. I woke from a deep sleep and I felt a presence at the end of my bed. I did not see its face, it was just a dark outline in a dark room. As if all the light had been sucked out of that particular area in space. It was human shaped but I could feel it was not human. There was a tremendous feeling of malevolence associated with that figure. What’s more, I could not will myself to move, let alone fight back or run. Could not even utter a sound. I was gripped in an all consuming sense of fear that seemed to last an eternity. What’s more, I was absolutely certain that I was completely awake. I mean, it was me, in my bed, in my room. Completely familiar surroundings. As real to me as the dark figure at the end of my bed, edging closer. Then I actually awoke, none the worse for wear. And I googled for explanations to find: > [@](#): > > **Sleep paralysis** > Humming, roaring, hissing, rushing, zapping, and buzzing noises are frequent in conjunction with sleep paralysis (SP). This happens when the REM atonia sets in sooner than usual, before the person is fully asleep, or persists longer than usual, after the person has (in other respects) fully awoken.[18] Sleep paralysis is reportedly very frequent among narcoleptics. It occurs frequently in about 6% of the rest of the population, and occurs occasionally in 60%.[29] In surveys from Canada, China, England, Japan and Nigeria, 20 to 60% of individuals reported having experienced SP at least once in their lifetime.[30][31] The paralysis itself is frequently accompanied by additional phenomena. Typical examples include a feeling of being crushed or suffocated, electric “tingles” or “vibrations”, imagined speech and other noises, the imagined presence of a visible or invisible entity, and sometimes intense emotion: fear or euphoria and orgasmic feelings.[30][32] SP has been proposed as an explanation for at least some alien abduction experiences and shadow people hauntings.[33] Among many other reasonably good explanations of [sleep phenomena](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia) that did not include demons or extra-ordinary beings as the leading cause. \ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/392 "2013-02-09T14:20:04Z")
**QuickSilver** nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/393 "2013-02-09T15:32:53Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Still your belief that it was the creator ,or you could prove it, and there is not yet any proof that anything exists that is of a god, just belief. It gives you something to cling to and that is good for you, but it doesn’t prove anyhting except you had a feeling you were in the presence of a creator. Maybe the creator was just a gas, light, or your imagination. what is truly known can be proven, until then it is just belief or desire. It was knowledge sure knowledge, I had memory of being there before. You can doubt if you wish it is OK, I understand. Without experiencing it one can only speculate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/394 "2013-02-09T15:35:37Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It was knowledge sure knowledge, I had memory of being there before. > > You can doubt if you wish it is OK, I understand. Without experiencing it one can only speculate. And without evidence, one is _only_ speculating. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/395 "2013-02-09T15:50:05Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I once had a similar experience. I woke from a deep sleep and I felt a presence at the end of my bed. I did not see its face, it was just a dark outline in a dark room. As if all the light had been sucked out of that particular area in space. It was human shaped but I could feel it was not human. There was a tremendous feeling of malevolence associated with that figure. What’s more, I could not will myself to move, let alone fight back or run. Could not even utter a sound. I was gripped in an all consuming sense of fear that seemed to last an eternity. What’s more, I was absolutely certain that I was completely awake. I mean, it was me, in my bed, in my room. Completely familiar surroundings. As real to me as the dark figure at the end of my bed, edging closer. > > Then I actually awoke, none the worse for wear. And I googled for explanations to find: > > Among many other reasonably good explanations of [sleep phenomena](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia) that did not include demons or extra-ordinary beings as the leading cause. > \ You are ready to believe this explanation and not your own experience. I am aware of sleep paralysis, experienced it myself many times. The problem is do we believe in a spiritual world where our consciousness continues to live or not. For you there is only the material world, but for me there is a spiritual world and a physical world. We learn about the physical world through experience and we learn about the spiritual world in the same manner. When one becomes so intently focused in the material world he shuts out the spiritual world and don’t believe in what he can’t see. I can’t prove to you the existence of other dimension nor can you prove to me something doesn’t exist that I am aware of everyday. The only answer is everyone having a spiritual experience, but there are reasons that will not happen. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/396 "2013-02-09T15:52:16Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You are ready to believe this explanation and not your own experience. > > I am aware of sleep paralysis, experienced it myself many times. The problem is do we believe in a spiritual world where our consciousness continues to live or not. For you there is only the material world, but for me there is a spiritual world and a physical world. We learn about the physical world through experience and we learn about the spiritual world in the same manner. When one becomes so intently focused in the material world he shuts out the spiritual world and don’t believe in what he can’t see. > > I can’t prove to you the existence of other dimension nor can you prove to me something doesn’t exist that I am aware of everyday. The only answer is everyone having a spiritual experience, but there are reasons that will not happen. One of those reasons being the fact that some people can tell the difference between reality and fantasy, and some can’t. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/397 "2013-02-09T17:05:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > One of those reasons being the fact that some people can tell the difference between reality and fantasy, and some can’t. I wonder why you are so against anything linked with God or spirits. I spend nearly all my free time helping people overcome fear of God or religion. There are no devils, demons, hell, or punishment from God. It does not exist in reality only in the minds of those who fear. Some people fear God and what He may do to them so much that they commit suicide. I try to prevent this with real knowledge of the Bible and God. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/398 "2013-02-09T17:43:48Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You are ready to believe this explanation and not your own experience. > > I can’t prove to you the existence of other dimension nor can you prove to me something doesn’t exist that I am aware of everyday. The only answer is everyone having a spiritual experience, but there are reasons that will not happen. The evidence for sleep paralysis is overwhelming compared to the evidence of gods and demons and aliens. I am predisposed, I suppose, to accept evidence based explanations. Perhaps I am missing the god gene that would enable me to accept extra-ordinary explanations that come so readily to you. As to the spiritual experiences, I believe I have some knowledge of those, despite my atheistic stance. I’ve spent enough time in houses of worship to understand how one can get caught up in the moment and feel a kind of kinship with people of your own traditional background and commonly shared history. Humans are programmed to connect and identify on that level and rituals and traditions re-enforce that sense of spiritual euphoria. So I get it. I just don’t attribute it to a necessary existence of a higher power. As frustrated as it may be for you to hear that some of us do not accept what you so obviously believe to be true, on some level I feel the same frustration (and frankly, puzzlement) that you would sooner make extra-ordinary claims than accept far more compelling evidence to the contrary. I don’t want to suggest (but I will, 😉 )that believers like you may lack rigor in your analysis of personal experiences. However I must admit, it’s the conclusion that I most often reach in these kinds of discussions. Which always end with, “Well, this is what I believe. YMMV.” ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/399 "2013-02-09T18:04:29Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The evidence for sleep paralysis is overwhelming compared to the evidence of gods and demons and aliens. I am predisposed, I suppose, to accept evidence based explanations. Perhaps I am missing the god gene that would enable me to accept extra-ordinary explanations that come so readily to you. > > As to the spiritual experiences, I believe I have some knowledge of those, despite my atheistic stance. I’ve spent enough time in houses of worship to understand how one can get caught up in the moment and feel a kind of kinship with people of your own traditional background and commonly shared history. Humans are programmed to connect and identify on that level and rituals and traditions re-enforce that sense of spiritual euphoria. So I get it. I just don’t attribute it to a necessary existence of a higher power. > > As frustrated as it may be for you to hear that some of us do not accept what you so obviously believe to be true, on some level I feel the same frustration (and frankly, puzzlement) that you would sooner make extra-ordinary claims than accept far more compelling evidence to the contrary. > > I don’t want to suggest (but I will, 😉 )that believers like you may lack rigor in your analysis of personal experiences. However I must admit, it’s the conclusion that I most often reach in these kinds of discussions. Which always end with, “Well, this is what I believe. YMMV.” I respect your position and I am not frustrated by you beliefs. I was once an agnostic for most of my life. I have nothing to sell you and I don’t want to change you. Now having said that I will share the spiritual explanation of sleep paralysis. During sleep the spirit leaves the body and returns to the spirit world. It does not happen every night but often enough to keep the spirit refreshed. Without this process the spirit has trouble keeping control of the body. Sometimes upon reentering the body the spirit is not fully within when the body wakes up and the person feels he can’t move and becomes frightened. If he would only wait a few seconds movement will return. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/400 "2013-02-09T18:07:46Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I wonder why you are so against anything linked with God or spirits. I’m sure it sounds glib but maybe for the same reason he is against anything linked with unicorns and leprechauns. Lack of supportable evidence. > [@](#): > > I spend nearly all my free time helping people overcome fear of God or religion. There are no devils, demons, hell, or punishment from God. It does not exist in reality only in the minds of those who fear. Some people fear God and what He may do to them so much that they commit suicide. I try to prevent this with real knowledge of the Bible and God. I’m sure you feel this is the right thing to do. But it’s internally inconsistent. If god is benign (or benevolent) those ending their life sooner get to be with their god that much sooner. Wouldn’t that be a win/win situation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=21)