# evidence for god? some one said so. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896 "2013-01-21T08:55:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/481 "2013-02-13T20:52:05Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I can always count on you to go negative, I always know what you are going to post. Same all the time. I don’t treat illnesses I help people. In what way did you bring someone back from a fatal illness, **lekatt**? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/482 "2013-02-13T20:54:36Z")
Noted. And taken at face value, it appears as if your kindness is appreciated. \ …but your dreams are NDE’s… :dubious: … they’re not, are they?.. come on now… 😉 \ ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/483 "2013-02-13T21:32:46Z")
It seems to me that arguments of Existence are fruitless. The atheist can never win such an argument. Either God appears and the atheist is wrong, or God doesn’t appear, but the possibility he will appear will always exist. The atheist can never be right. Well, he _can_ be right, but no one will ever know. In that regard, the theists have another advantage. If they are right, they’ll get to rub it in the atheist’s face one day (how red his face will be); if the atheist is correct, he’ll get no such satisfaction. And what about Hell? I mean, if you’re evil and are sent to Hell, won’t The Devil treat you nicely for serving _him_? If the Devil punishes you for doing bad things, that makes him good. It’s all rather silly…IMHO of course. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/484 "2013-02-14T05:13:05Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > It seems to me that arguments of Existence are fruitless. The atheist can never win such an argument. Either God appears and the atheist is wrong, or God doesn’t appear, but the possibility he will appear will always exist. The atheist can never be right. Well, he _can_ be right, but no one will ever know. . . . Agreed. The theist can declare aloud, “God will give me a sign by striking this lamp-post with lightning!” Naturally, most times, nothing happens. But one time in a million, a lightning bolt hits somewhere nearby, and everyone who sees it says “Wow!” What is the atheist going to come up with that is as impressive? What we do have is logic and reason. We can compare the rate of lightning strikes in areas inhabited by the faithful, and in areas not inhabited by the faithful. And, every now and then, we invent the lightning-rod, and demonstrate that the principle itself was fallacious. This, then, is our victory: the slow, gradual awakening from ignorance, and the realization that lightning is a natural event, not one that is supernatural. (This, of course, is why they fight to hard to deny evolution; they’re still bitter over losing the lightning…) ---
**Author:** ![Molesworth\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Molesworth\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molesworth_2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/485 "2013-02-14T12:16:53Z")
Let’s leave aside the way that religious people believe in this “God” character. That’s neither here nor there. Why the fuck is this individual revered and seen as worthy of worship? Every natural disaster is seen as “His” work. As the waves were receding after the 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami this asshole was smoking a post-coital cigarette. “God” is supposedly omnipotent, so why the hell did “He” allow the Holocaust to happen? For the lulz? And he’s apparently going to send me to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity if I don’t engage in a ritual celebrating how wonderful “He” is every Sunday? Seriously, that kind of narcissism should never be rewarded. Screw that guy. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/486 "2013-02-14T14:11:50Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You and I are life our bodies are not life, without us they can barely maintain existence and not for long. We come from the spirit world and go back there when we “die.” As spirits we enter a baby at the time of birth and exit when the body can no long support us. Researchers of NDEs have proved that consciousness (us) can live after the death of the brain and body. That is solid. Even blind from birth people can see when out of body in a NDE. I have been out of body many times, there is no doubt I am spiritual. I spend a lot of time helping others so it may be hit and miss here because they are more important. That makes no sense to me. It still doesn’t say where life went after death,and when life leaves the body one is dead, so it doesn’t explain soul. If we are life then we couldn’t die. Nor would we need a soul; Soul and life would be the same thing. Where is the soul in a frozen embryo, does the soul sit around for years trying to jump in? The brain part of a frozen embryo that isn’t yet completely formed can go into hybrination like some animals do, and in the cases of small children who were rescued from drowning in cold water(at least that is my understanding from what I have read) The brain stem is the brain that just some lower animals have, as some evolved they aquire more and larger parts of the brain, that is why some humans that are said to have been born with out a brain are really just born with the brain stem and don’t live for more than a few days. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/487 "2013-02-14T14:42:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In what way did you bring someone back from a fatal illness, **lekatt**? He did the work I just gave him the material and support, I don’t clam to heal anyone, but if it happens–great. He wanted to talk to someone about death because he had stage four cancer. His doctor had sent him home to die. He doesn’t live in the US. He was given four months to live. The cancer was all through his body. I told him I would talk to him and we began a daily email correspondence. I wanted him to do affirmations and read some NDEs I had chose for him. He argued with me saying he did not believe in them. He had been a Christian but left the church in disgust. So I started to teach him about spirituality and he did not like that either. After wasting two months I ask him what he had to lose by humoring me and reading the material. Surprisingly he said nothing to lose and started reading the NDEs. As he became more interested in them he started to ask a lot of questions. I answered them as best as I could. After a while he told me he felt a lot better about death. He was no more afraid of it. I again started to teach him about spiritually. This time he saw the connections between the experiences and the spirit. We were doing fine when one day he told me his doctor had called and was very surprised to find him still alive since it had been over six months. He went back to the doctor who found that his tumors had not grown any. The doctor wanted to remove the largest tumors to make him more comfortable. We talked about it and he decided to have the surgery. After a month he said the surgery was easy and he no longer feared death. To make a long story short he went back to the doctor six months later to find out he was cancer free, and has been for over ten years. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/488 "2013-02-14T14:44:41Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Noted. And taken at face value, it appears as if your kindness is appreciated. > > \ …but your dreams are NDE’s… :dubious: … they’re not, are they?.. come on now… 😉 \ I am grateful to be appreciated, and yes my experience was real. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/489 "2013-02-14T14:51:06Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > That makes no sense to me. It still doesn’t say where life went after death,and when life leaves the body one is dead, so it doesn’t explain soul. If we are life then we couldn’t die. Nor would we need a soul; Soul and life would be the same thing. > > Where is the soul in a frozen embryo, does the soul sit around for years trying to jump in? The brain part of a frozen embryo that isn’t yet completely formed can go into hybrination like some animals do, and in the cases of small children who were rescued from drowning in cold water(at least that is my understanding from what I have read) The brain stem is the brain that just some lower animals have, as some evolved they aquire more and larger parts of the brain, that is why some humans that are said to have been born with out a brain are really just born with the brain stem and don’t live for more than a few days. The short explanation Souls, spirits, mind, consciousness, all are words to describe the the same namely you or I. There are created in the spirit world by the creator in His image. If a soul desires to enter the physical dimension then it can enter the body of a baby just before it is born and returns to the spirit world when the body dies. You can find Pre-Birth experiences on the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/490 "2013-02-14T15:19:44Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The short explanation > > Souls, spirits, mind, consciousness, all are words to describe the the same namely you or I. > > There are created in the spirit world by the creator in His image. If a soul desires to enter the physical dimension then it can enter the body of a baby just before it is born and returns to the spirit world when the body dies. > > You can find Pre-Birth experiences on the Internet. Can you give us a single cite that has some documentation to it and isn’t yet another of your anonymous anecdotes? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/491 "2013-02-14T15:21:28Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > He did the work I just gave him the material and support, I don’t clam to heal anyone, but if it happens–great. > > He wanted to talk to someone about death because he had stage four cancer. His doctor had sent him home to die. He doesn’t live in the US. He was given four months to live. The cancer was all through his body. I told him I would talk to him and we began a daily email correspondence. I wanted him to do affirmations and read some NDEs I had chose for him. He argued with me saying he did not believe in them. He had been a Christian but left the church in disgust. So I started to teach him about spirituality and he did not like that either. After wasting two months I ask him what he had to lose by humoring me and reading the material. Surprisingly he said nothing to lose and started reading the NDEs. As he became more interested in them he started to ask a lot of questions. I answered them as best as I could. After a while he told me he felt a lot better about death. He was no more afraid of it. I again started to teach him about spiritually. This time he saw the connections between the experiences and the spirit. We were doing fine when one day he told me his doctor had called and was very surprised to find him still alive since it had been over six months. He went back to the doctor who found that his tumors had not grown any. The doctor wanted to remove the largest tumors to make him more comfortable. We talked about it and he decided to have the surgery. After a month he said the surgery was easy and he no longer feared death. To make a long story short he went back to the doctor six months later to find out he was cancer free, and has been for over ten years. Another useless anonymous anecdote, just as I expected. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/492 "2013-02-14T16:31:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Another useless anonymous anecdote, just as I expected. Then why ask, you asked for my personal experience and I gave you my personal experience. Incidentally the word anecdote does not mean false, it means a personal story. In the future don’t ask. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/493 "2013-02-14T16:37:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Then why ask, you asked for my personal experience and I gave you my personal experience. Incidentally the word anecdote does not mean false, it means a personal story. In the future don’t ask. In the future, bring facts. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/494 "2013-02-14T16:37:18Z")
**lekatt** , do you now accept that genetics can affect the mind, such as in the case of schizophrenia? You never responded to me on that. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/495 "2013-02-14T16:38:11Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Then why ask, you asked for my personal experience and I gave you my personal experience. Incidentally the word anecdote does not mean false, it means a personal story. In the future don’t ask. Can you back up any of that story with facts - doctors statement, medical records, even a published story in the newspaper somewhere? Otherwise - its not even an anecdote - its a story - and with nothing to back it up - its fiction. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/496 "2013-02-14T17:39:16Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > **lekatt** , do you now accept that genetics can affect the mind, such as in the case of schizophrenia? You never responded to me on that. It is the other way around. The mind or spirit affects the body. No one has ever cured mental illness with a pill. It is far more complicated than science suspects. Hundreds of years ago they used to chain the mentally ill to the wall in dungeons. Some of them recovered. No. I don’t have quotes, if you want to learn you must do it on your own.l ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/497 "2013-02-14T17:55:22Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It is the other way around. The mind or spirit affects the body. Then why does a person whose twin is schizophrenic have a 40% chance of himself being schizophrenic? > [@lekatt](#): > > No one has ever cured mental illness with a pill. Cure? No. Treat? Absolutely. [Lithium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_pharmacology) > [@](#): > > Lithium treatment is used to treat mania in bipolar disorder. Initially, lithium is often used in conjunction with antipsychotic drugs as it can take up to a month for it to have an effect. Lithium is also used as prophylaxis for depression and mania in bipolar disorder. It is sometimes used for other psychiatric disorders, such as cycloid psychosis and major depressive disorder. Lithium possesses a very important antisuicidal effect not shown in other stabilizing medications such as antiseizure drugs. [Haldol](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldol#Uses) > [@](#): > > A comprehensive review of haloperidol has found it to be an effective agent in treatment of symptoms associated with schizophrenia. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/498 "2013-02-14T18:08:54Z")
[A link to posts from **lekatt** about his rather eclectic views on medicine.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=9176102) ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/499 "2013-02-14T19:13:26Z")
Yeah its pretty obvious **lekatt** didn’t even read the op. Not that I care at this point but WOW! talk about violating the terms set out in the op. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/500 "2013-02-14T19:26:56Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Agreed. The theist can declare aloud, “God will give me a sign by striking this lamp-post with lightning!” Naturally, most times, nothing happens. But one time in a million, a lightning bolt hits somewhere nearby, and everyone who sees it says “Wow!” What is the atheist going to come up with that is as impressive? > > What we do have is logic and reason. We can compare the rate of lightning strikes in areas inhabited by the faithful, and in areas not inhabited by the faithful. > > And, every now and then, we invent the lightning-rod, and demonstrate that the principle itself was fallacious. This, then, is our victory: the slow, gradual awakening from ignorance, and the realization that lightning is a natural event, not one that is supernatural. > > (This, of course, is why they fight to hard to deny evolution; they’re still bitter over losing the lightning…) I recall reading an article by Isaac Asimov about how hard they tried to deny and forbid the lightning rod, and how for a time the end result was that churches tended to be struck repeatedly by lightning because they both lacked a lightning rod and were the tallest buildings around with their steeples. Meanwhile, the local taverns and brothels were just fine… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=26)