# evidence for god? some one said so. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896 "2013-01-21T08:55:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/501 "2013-02-14T21:20:21Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > . . . No one has ever cured mental illness with a pill. . . . This is only true if you really, really quibble over the word “cure.” Many people today are living productive lives, under medication that treats their serious mental illnesses. Schizophrenia is often treatable; obsessive-compulsive disorder is treatable; severe depression is treatable. You may quibble and say that a treatment is not a cure. Fine. Quibble away. But many people will point out that their symptoms have been alleviated. You might as well have said “No one has ever cured diabetes with a pill.” This is true…and misleading. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/502 "2013-02-14T21:23:18Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This is only true if you really, really quibble over the word “cure.” Many people today are living productive lives, under medication that treats their serious mental illnesses. Schizophrenia is often treatable; obsessive-compulsive disorder is treatable; severe depression is treatable. > > You may quibble and say that a treatment is not a cure. Fine. Quibble away. But many people will point out that their symptoms have been alleviated. You might as well have said “No one has ever cured diabetes with a pill.” This is true…and misleading. I would also say thta nobody has ‘cured’ mental ilness with a ‘mentor’ either - you might help the person learn to cope/deal - but its no more of a ‘cure’ than the medicinal variety - and probably less so. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/503 "2013-02-15T13:32:09Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > He did the work I just gave him the material and support, I don’t clam to heal anyone, but if it happens–great. > > He wanted to talk to someone about death because he had stage four cancer. His doctor had sent him home to die. He doesn’t live in the US. He was given four months to live. The cancer was all through his body. I told him I would talk to him and we began a daily email correspondence. I wanted him to do affirmations and read some NDEs I had chose for him. He argued with me saying he did not believe in them. He had been a Christian but left the church in disgust. So I started to teach him about spirituality and he did not like that either. After wasting two months I ask him what he had to lose by humoring me and reading the material. Surprisingly he said nothing to lose and started reading the NDEs. As he became more interested in them he started to ask a lot of questions. I answered them as best as I could. After a while he told me he felt a lot better about death. He was no more afraid of it. I again started to teach him about spiritually. This time he saw the connections between the experiences and the spirit. We were doing fine when one day he told me his doctor had called and was very surprised to find him still alive since it had been over six months. He went back to the doctor who found that his tumors had not grown any. The doctor wanted to remove the largest tumors to make him more comfortable. We talked about it and he decided to have the surgery. After a month he said the surgery was easy and he no longer feared death. To make a long story short he went back to the doctor six months later to find out he was cancer free, and has been for over ten years. To me I see he did go to a doctor, and apparently had treatments, that doesn’t prove anything, except in his unconscious mind he really wanted to believe. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/504 "2013-02-15T13:36:27Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The short explanation > > Souls, spirits, mind, consciousness, all are words to describe the the same namely you or I. > > There are created in the spirit world by the creator in His image. If a soul desires to enter the physical dimension then it can enter the body of a baby just before it is born and returns to the spirit world when the body dies. > > You can find Pre-Birth experiences on the Internet. What of course is what you believe,but I don’t. There are a lot of things that can’t be explained now, but there are many that can be explained that were not many years ago .First you need to prove to me," who created the place for the creator?" If the creator exists he must be in existence, so existence must have preceeded him! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/505 "2013-02-15T13:40:17Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It is the other way around. The mind or spirit affects the body. > > No one has ever cured mental illness with a pill. > > It is far more complicated than science suspects. Hundreds of years ago they used to chain the mentally ill to the wall in dungeons. Some of them recovered. No. I don’t have quotes, if you want to learn you must do it on your own.l There are pills for a lot of mental illnesses. and there are cases where a person didn’t use them and reverted back, it may not be an actual cure, but it does supply the chemical a person is lacking to think rationally. ---
**Author:** ![mbedell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mbedell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbedell)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/506 "2013-02-15T14:17:53Z")
I would defer you to this thread that discussed this topic at GREAT length. Use the search function. “Scientific evidence of God’s existence” – 2008 > **[Scientific evidence of God's existence](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=490074)** > > Hi, I do a bit of reading up on some of the alleged “proofs of God” etc, and one thing that atheists often argue is that there is no scientific evidence of God’s existence. Theists try and argue things like “intelligence design”, or point to what... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/507 "2013-02-15T15:40:24Z")
> [@mbedell](#): > > I would defer you to this thread that discussed this topic at GREAT length. Use the search function. > > “Scientific evidence of God’s existence” – 2008 > > [Scientific evidence of God's existence - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=490074) I remember that thread. It’s another one where you, **lekatt** and a few other religionists couldn’t stay on topic. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/508 "2013-02-15T15:43:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I recall reading an article by Isaac Asimov about how hard they tried to deny and forbid the lightning rod, and how for a time the end result was that churches tended to be struck repeatedly by lightning because they both lacked a lightning rod and were the tallest buildings around with their steeples. Meanwhile, the local taverns and brothels were just fine… Aw man, this reminds me of the many chuckles I got while reading from White’s _The Warfare of Science with Theology_ and the opposition that many faithful held to what they called heretical rods that Franklin had invented. Have you read from it? He deals with it quite extensively [here.](http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/andrew_white/Chapter11.html#IV) Churches held out for a long time, many refusing to place it on their churches, and still placing their faith in tinker bells, and other means to protect their churches. White relates the case that converted most of the Italian theologians to the scientific view was the church of San Nazaro, at Brescia. Says White: > [@](#): > > The Republic of Venice had stored in the vaults of this church over two hundred thousand pounds of powder. In 1767, seventeen years after Franklin’s discovery, no rod having been placed upon it, it was struck by lightning, the powder in the vaults was exploded, one sixth of the entire city destroyed, and over three thousand lives were lost. So while some are a little slow to come around, most do eventually, although there will always be a few lekatts left in the world that will be getting blown to smithereens, or in lekatts mind, to heaven. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/509 "2013-02-16T13:07:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I was surrounded by a brilliant light, the light was love and compassion, it was also knowledge of all things. It entered my being and imparted its love and knowledge as energy merges with energy. I knew I was in the presence of God but did not see Him. When the experience was over much of the knowledge could not be remembered, but the love was forever. You say you KNEW you were in the presence of God, but it is a belief not a fact. I gives you peace and you are surely entitled to your beliefs. As you state it, God is just a light, the idea of God being love is a concept of one man…John. No one can say anything about God in truth, since it can’t be proven, It can only be by Faith alone. Light is not a being, and if the Bible is correct, when Moses is said to ask to see him, God said he would die! So that would mean God has dimentions! Your defination is God is energy. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/510 "2013-02-16T18:19:01Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > You say you KNEW you were in the presence of God, but it is a belief not a fact. I gives you peace and you are surely entitled to your beliefs. As you state it, God is just a light, the idea of God being love is a concept of one man…John. > > No one can say anything about God in truth, since it can’t be proven, It can only be by Faith alone. > > Light is not a being, and if the Bible is correct, when Moses is said to ask to see him, God said he would die! So that would mean God has dimentions! Your defination is God is energy. We are all light Beings of energy, the more we love the brighter we become. I did know that I was in the presence of God it was not a belief it was a knowing. I remember watching a TV interview of a near death experiencer. The lady asked about his experience and the man said “I knew I was in the presence of God” then the lady said “You mean you believed you were in the presence of God.” He replied “No ma’am, I knew I was in the presence of God”. The news-lady became flustered and called for a break, when the show came back the NDE person was gone. He was accurate and I am accurate. I am not sure why this is so scary to people. God doesn’t harm anyone no matter what they were told when young. I say this because it is the facts and the truth. I will answer only rational serious questions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/511 "2013-02-16T18:26:54Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > We are all light Beings of energy, the more we love the brighter we become. > > I did know that I was in the presence of God it was not a belief it was a knowing. I remember watching a TV interview of a near death experiencer. The lady asked about his experience and the man said “I knew I was in the presence of God” then the lady said “You mean you believed you were in the presence of God.” He replied “No ma’am, I knew I was in the presence of God”. The news-lady became flustered and called for a break, when the show came back the NDE person was gone. He was accurate and I am accurate. > > I am not sure why this is so scary to people. God doesn’t harm anyone no matter what they were told when young. > > I say this because it is the facts and the truth. I will answer only rational serious questions. Cite for that supposed television interview please? Or is it just another anonymous anecdote, like every other bit of “evidence” you post here? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/512 "2013-02-16T18:43:15Z")
By the way, does anyone else here see glowing people walking about, or is it just **lekatt**? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/513 "2013-02-16T22:39:15Z")
How 'bout it, lekatt? Can people find you in the dark from the light you give off? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/514 "2013-02-17T13:31:42Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > We are all light Beings of energy, the more we love the brighter we become. > > I did know that I was in the presence of God it was not a belief it was a knowing. I remember watching a TV interview of a near death experiencer. The lady asked about his experience and the man said “I knew I was in the presence of God” then the lady said “You mean you believed you were in the presence of God.” He replied “No ma’am, I knew I was in the presence of God”. The news-lady became flustered and called for a break, when the show came back the NDE person was gone. He was accurate and I am accurate. > > I am not sure why this is so scary to people. God doesn’t harm anyone no matter what they were told when young. > > I say this because it is the facts and the truth. I will answer only rational serious questions. You choose to belive it is true for you but until it can be proven to all people it is just that…BELIEF. I don’t know any non-believer that fears or find belief scarey. One has to first believe there is a monster or prove it, to be afraid. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/515 "2013-02-17T19:14:12Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > You choose to belive it is true for you but until it can be proven to all people it is just that…BELIEF. > > I don’t know any non-believer that fears or find belief scarey. One has to first believe there is a monster or prove it, to be afraid. I didn’t choose to believe it true. I didn’t ask for it to happen, it was true, and research has proven it true and authentic. I know you can’t understand my personal experience, but millions who have had the experience do understand it. Fear is evident when research and evidence is ignored. I worked in a hospital for years and volunteered in Hospice. It fear of the unknown that scares people. I know where I am going and what I am going to do when this body of mine dies. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/516 "2013-02-17T20:09:34Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Fear is evident when research and evidence is ignored. You do not do research, and you have no idea what real evidence consists of, but I do not make the claim that you “fear” either. Rather, you evidently are deliberately _ignorant_ despite multiple attempts throughout your life made by others to educate you. You are actually proud of this ignorance, and the only thing we could possibly be afraid of is that you might spread it to others. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/517 "2013-02-18T01:47:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You do not do research, and you have no idea what real evidence consists of, but I do not make the claim that you “fear” either. Rather, you evidently are deliberately _ignorant_ despite multiple attempts throughout your life made by others to educate you. You are actually proud of this ignorance, and the only thing we could possibly be afraid of is that you might spread it to others. Well It is my goal in life to help others with the knowledge I have gained from my experience. I have been doing that for 25 years now, wrote three books with one more being published soon. I have many pages of “thank you” notes from the people I have helped. Fear becomes anger, anger becomes hate, and hate becomes suffering. Those who fear suffer. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/518 "2013-02-18T02:43:18Z")
Yawn… the OP: Another ultra-cocky atheist who defines the rules of engagement the way _he_ wants. Sprinkle in some fact, non-fact, and conjecture. “200 years ago 1 in 3 didn’t live to 21…” I’ve read other atheists saying most everyone lived only to 45. Funny how in the Psalms it says the average human lifespan is 70 years - much closer to today, BTW. And, no, I am not going to be sucked into some strawman argument where God’s existance is “dependent upon the scientific method.” Nice try Charlie. But I will say this: In terms of Christianity specifically, you cannot ignore Pascal’s wager. Any self-preserving atheist has to consider the implied consequences of unbelief. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/519 "2013-02-18T02:46:22Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > YBut I will say this: In terms of Christianity specifically, you cannot ignore Pascal’s wager. Any self-preserving atheist has to consider the implied consequences of unbelief. What if you believe in the wrong god? If you die and find out you failed to properly worship Zeus, or Vishnu, won’t the outcome be the same as an atheist who doesn’t believe in the Christian god? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/520 "2013-02-18T03:35:33Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Well It is my goal in life to help others with the knowledge I have gained from my experience. I have been doing that for 25 years now, wrote three books with one more being published soon. I have many pages of “thank you” notes from the people I have helped. 1. Paying for vanity press isn’t the same as getting professionally published. 2. If I didn’t have any self respect I could come up with a long list of anonymous responses too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=27)