# evidence for god? some one said so. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896 "2013-01-21T08:55:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/521 "2013-02-18T05:21:59Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Yawn… the OP: Another ultra-cocky atheist who defines the rules of engagement the way _he_ wants. Sprinkle in some fact, non-fact, and conjecture. “200 years ago 1 in 3 didn’t live to 21..” I’ve read other atheists saying most everyone lived only to 45. Funny how in the Psalms it says the average human lifespan is 70 years - much closer to today, BTW. And, no, I am not going to be sucked into some strawman argument where God’s existance is “dependent upon the scientific method.” Nice try Charlie. Psalms says that the average lifespan was 70 years? seriously you are quoting the effing bible as evidence on a topic like average lifespans? Throughout the vast majority of human history babies die, they die by the ton, the vast majority of human beings ever born died before the age of 5. This isn’t even an argument you are just flat out declaring your ignorance to the world on this topic. > [@NormalDude](#): > > But I will say this: In terms of Christianity specifically, you cannot ignore Pascal’s wager. Any self-preserving atheist has to consider the implied consequences of unbelief. There are over 6,000 known gods, which one are you betting on? Oh right the xian god cause thats the one you personally have a stake in. If you can’t even pretend to follow the rules laid out in the op then why even read it or bother with a reply? ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/522 "2013-02-18T05:50:05Z")
Ug, Just ignore me. I have a pretty gnarly sinus infection going on right now. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/523 "2013-02-18T05:58:09Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Yawn… the OP: Another ultra-cocky atheist who defines the rules of engagement the way _he_ wants. Sprinkle in some fact, non-fact, and conjecture. “200 years ago 1 in 3 didn’t live to 21..” I’ve read other atheists saying most everyone lived only to 45. Funny how in the Psalms it says the average human lifespan is 70 years - much closer to today, BTW. And, no, I am not going to be sucked into some strawman argument where God’s existance is “dependent upon the scientific method.” Nice try Charlie. > > But I will say this: In terms of Christianity specifically, you cannot ignore Pascal’s wager. Any self-preserving atheist has to consider the implied consequences of unbelief. Pascal’s wager would apply equally to the Hindu gods. Do you worship them? Greek gods, Egyptian gods, Hawaiian gods, Native American gods. I assume you worship them all, just to be sure? I hope you fight valiantly so you can be chosen by the Valkyrie and enter Valhalla, when the time comes. Since you know, you just want to play it safe. How many opposing tribesmen have you killed? I think the gods of a South American tribe value that strongly. Pascal’s wager is utter stupidity. If you’re convinced by it, you’ve been tricked. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/524 "2013-02-18T06:20:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Pascal’s wager would apply equally to the Hindu gods. Do you worship them? Greek gods, Egyptian gods, Hawaiian gods, Native American gods. I assume you worship them all, just to be sure? > > I hope you fight valiantly so you can be chosen by the Valkyrie and enter Valhalla, when the time comes. Since you know, you just want to play it safe. > > How many opposing tribesmen have you killed? I think the gods of a South American tribe value that strongly. > > Pascal’s wager is utter stupidity. If you’re convinced by it, you’ve been tricked. I was convinced long before seeing Pascal’s Wager. However it is a common error to think it can be applied to any other religion. Only Christianity points to salvation emanating solely from faith in God. And, Pascal was Christian and it was intended only to address that specific theology. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/525 "2013-02-18T06:26:36Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Psalms says that the average lifespan was 70 years? seriously you are quoting the effing bible as evidence on a topic like average lifespans? Do you have a problem even just accepting the secular historical value of poetry written hundreds of years BC?? Wow! If the author of the psalm cited this way back then, it pretty much indicates that people were living to 70 years old, a completely reasonable number. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/526 "2013-02-18T06:28:15Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Do you have a problem even just accepting the secular historical value of poetry written hundreds of years BC?? The Bible is full of contradictions and known falsehoods, and is terrible evidence for anything. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/527 "2013-02-18T06:33:38Z")
Psalm 90:10, take it for what it is worth. A human being wrote this thousands of years ago. I doubt the audience at the time said, WTF? We all die by 45. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/528 "2013-02-18T06:37:11Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Psalm 90:10, take it for what it is worth. A human being wrote this thousands of years ago. No they didn’t, the Bible wasn’t written that long ago. Someone told a story centuries ago, it was told and retold, then someone wrote it down, then it was edited and re-edited by yet more people. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/529 "2013-02-18T06:48:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No they didn’t, the Bible wasn’t written that long ago. Someone told a story centuries ago, it was told and retold, then someone wrote it down, then it was edited and re-edited by yet more people. Your remark is utterly ignorant of fact. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/530 "2013-02-18T06:52:16Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Your remark is utterly ignorant of fact. No, what I said is accurate; what you said isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/531 "2013-02-18T06:59:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, what I said is accurate; what you said isn’t. And you said that Psalms were written only mere hundreds of years ago. I contend at least 2500 years ago. So when an archeologist shows ancient scrolls of Psalms written and dated from 2500+ years ago in an ancient Hebrew, that is really according to you a much more recent forgery buried there exactly when? How pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/532 "2013-02-18T07:27:14Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > And you said that Psalms were written only mere hundreds of years ago. I contend at least 2500 years ago. So when an archeologist shows ancient scrolls of Psalms written and dated from 2500+ years ago in an ancient Hebrew, that is really according to you a much more recent forgery buried there exactly when? How pathetic. How much of the Bible would you say is literally true? ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/533 "2013-02-18T08:12:01Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Do you have a problem even just accepting the secular historical value of poetry written hundreds of years BC?? Wow! > > If the author of the psalm cited this way back then, it pretty much indicates that people were living to 70 years old, a completely reasonable number. You know, I think I may have to take back the part about ignoring me. Here is the thing you are failing to understand. Your author is probably perfectly correct in his statement that people lived to the age of 70 frequently, and you are also correct that it is a completely reasonable number…unfortunately for everyone who lived to the age of 70 there were 10 who died before 3, and many more who died before hitting 20. So there is this thing called an “Average” where you take every single person born, calculate their age at death, then add up all those ages and divide by the number of dead people. What you are left with is a historical average age of 30 years. Meaning that some people lived fairly long lives back then but most didn’t. Your author was stating that people could live to 70, not that the average age was 70. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/534 "2013-02-18T08:13:16Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Do you have a problem even just accepting the secular historical value of poetry written hundreds of years BC?? Wow! > > If the author of the psalm cited this way back then, it pretty much indicates that people were living to 70 years old, a completely reasonable number. As someone else has pointed out, but you may have missed, average life expectancy of 45 does not necessarily mean everyone died at 45. If only two kids are born, one dies at six months, the other lives to 90, it gives you an average life expectancy of roughly 45. Infant and child mortality rates have been very high for most of human history, and in fact still are in many under developed places. Most of these places have some sort of religion btw, including yours. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/535 "2013-02-18T12:54:43Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I didn’t choose to believe it true. I didn’t ask for it to happen, it was true, and research has proven it true and authentic. I know you can’t understand my personal experience, but millions who have had the experience do understand it. > > Fear is evident when research and evidence is ignored. I worked in a hospital for years and volunteered in Hospice. It fear of the unknown that scares people. I know where I am going and what I am going to do when this body of mine dies. That is your belief and are entitled to it.You (or the millions you say) have yet to prove it. In your mind it is so, and you find comfort in it, so believe all you wish, so long as it brings no harm to anyone else. What is known can be proven, and I have yet to see any proof. when I was about 3 years old, I thought I saw the Easter Bunny going through our yard pushing a big wheelborrow. I know it was an illusion. The human mind is complcatd and there is still much to learn. I just don’t know what fear you feel people have about your own( what you call your experiences). I for one take little stock in it. But I don’t, or won’t speak for others! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/536 "2013-02-18T13:03:34Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Yawn… the OP: Another ultra-cocky atheist who defines the rules of engagement the way _he_ wants. Sprinkle in some fact, non-fact, and conjecture. “200 years ago 1 in 3 didn’t live to 21..” I’ve read other atheists saying most everyone lived only to 45. Funny how in the Psalms it says the average human lifespan is 70 years - much closer to today, BTW. And, no, I am not going to be sucked into some strawman argument where God’s existance is “dependent upon the scientific method.” Nice try Charlie. > > But I will say this: In terms of Christianity specifically, you cannot ignore Pascal’s wager. Any self-preserving atheist has to consider the implied consequences of unbelief. Your last statement speaks of a monster who gave belief to some of his Children and none to others, doesn’t give freewill to some of his children. Proof that his being is not a loving father, he knew before they were concieved they would suffer for all eternity, but allowed them to be born anyway. It would mean your supreme being is some sort of monster. The psalmist also says;" I said you are gods, and sons of the most high";Jesus backs this up in John 10, in that sense if all are gods then they don’t have to believe they already are gods, or don’t you believe the psalmist in that Psalm? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/537 "2013-02-18T13:09:01Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > I was convinced long before seeing Pascal’s Wager. However it is a common error to think it can be applied to any other religion. Only Christianity points to salvation emanating solely from faith in God. And, Pascal was Christian and it was intended only to address that specific theology. Did you read the verse where Jesus is quoted that he was sent ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel? Do you also know that Humans decided what was the word of God, and what was not? This happened at the request of Constantine, he wanted Christianity to be united, he saw the political good of a united Christianity. For over 300 years there were many forms of Christiaity just as there are today. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/538 "2013-02-18T13:37:07Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > But I will say this: In terms of Christianity specifically, you cannot ignore Pascal’s wager. Any self-preserving atheist has to consider the implied consequences of unbelief. There are an infinite number of different conceivable gods that might exist. You have a 0% chance of getting the right one, assuming one exists at all. Additionally, many of those conceivable gods either a) don’t have a hell, b) don’t care at all what you do or believe, or c) actively reward using your brain and not taking things on faith. There is _just_ as much chance that one of those is ‘the real god’ as one of the spiteful asshole gods. No matter what god you pick, you’re almost certain to piss off ‘the real one’ (if he cares at all) by picking wrong. There’s just as much chance that ‘the real god’ isn’t interested in punishing you at all. Obviously implied by this: Christians are as likely to wind up in some kind of hell as atheists. Thus, Pascal’s wager is trivially disposed of. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/539 "2013-02-18T13:44:13Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/540 "2013-02-18T13:46:42Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Do you not understand the difference between _average_ lifespan, and someone who beat the odds to live to a normal old age? Of all the books in the Bible to take literally, he picks _Psalms_? What other books do you think are nothing but literal truth, **NormalDude**? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=28)