# evidence for god? some one said so. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896 "2013-01-21T08:55:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/561 "2013-02-18T19:07:08Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Faith and Jesus’ own words and supportive words of the apostles. > > Now if the only way to reap the benefits of God’s word is faith, then it emphasizes the importance of having that faith to begin with. Faith, exactly. The same sort of faith that underlies all religions. You are a Christian of some sort because you have faith that it is correct and has value. That’s fine, believe what you like. However, trying to wrap your faith in logic (ie, Pascal’s Wager) is doomed to fail, as they are not compatible. There’s no place for unprovable assumptions in any syllogism I ever saw, at least. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/562 "2013-02-18T19:18:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think your assumption that because Pascal was of the Christian sect it can only be restricted to that sect. But he addresses a core common denominator to most religions: Faith. Pascal was speaking of faith entirely from a Christian framework and as such would have rejected any other theological viewpoint prior to the construct. Perhaps you may want to examine Christianity more deeply. Christianity is technically not considered a religion by some lines of thinking. Religions mostly try and tell people what THEY must do to please God and earn salvation. Christianity conveys the message that there isn’t anything you can do and it is a gift from God if you can get beyond your own ego and honor his existance. Seems to be about the easiest and most generous freebie imaginable. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/563 "2013-02-18T19:20:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Additionally, NormalDude, is your god so easily fooled by your ingenuine “toadying and barefaced flattery” that he’d give you a pass to heaven for simply showing up and making mockery of him? What’s the minimum effort that your god requires for a passing mark? Never said this or implied this. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/564 "2013-02-18T19:21:29Z")
We are not going to redefine “religion” just so you can feel special. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/565 "2013-02-18T19:22:10Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Christianity is technically not considered a religion by some lines of thinking. 😃 Never heard that one before. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/566 "2013-02-18T19:23:19Z")
Of course not. Look it up yourself. Apparently you are not aware of this?? ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/567 "2013-02-18T19:26:21Z")
Here is just one source referencing the topic: > **[Christianity is NOT Religion](http://www.christinyou.net/pages/Xnotrel.html)** > > Christianity is not religion ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/568 "2013-02-18T19:26:58Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Pascal was speaking of faith entirely from a Christian framework and as such would have rejected any other theological viewpoint prior to the construct. Right, _because Pascal was a Christian_, not because he had some special insights into the nature of God and salvation. If Pascal were a Muslim, he’d have framed the wager as believing in Allah or not. > [@NormalDude](#): > > Perhaps you may want to examine Christianity more deeply. Christianity is technically not considered a religion by some lines of thinking. Religions mostly try and tell people what THEY must do to please God and earn salvation. Those lines of thinking are absurd. You can dither over what _kind_ of religion Christianity is, but it _is_ a religion under any definition of the word that’s every been in common use. > [@NormalDude](#): > > Christianity conveys the message that there isn’t anything you can do and it is a gift from God if you can get beyond your own ego and honor his existance. Seems to be about the easiest and most generous freebie imaginable. Er, no, Protestant Christianity does, it’s called [sola fide](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide). Roman and Orthodox Catholics would differ with you here, quite strongly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/569 "2013-02-18T19:34:44Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Here is just one source referencing the topic: > > [Christianity is NOT Religion](http://www.christinyou.net/pages/Xnotrel.html) From your cite: > [@](#): > > The Latin word from which the English word “religion” is derived means “to bind up.” Jesus did not come to bind us up in rules and regulations or rituals of devotion, but to set us free to be man as God inended. The supposed root of a word is not the word itself. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/570 "2013-02-18T19:35:42Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Of course not. Look it up yourself. Apparently you are not aware of this?? Say it ain’t so, Joe! Please note rolling eyes in my previous post. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/571 "2013-02-18T19:38:32Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Completely invalid arguments because of one simple fact: Pascal’s Wager was devised entirely from within a Christian theological framework. The “which God?” question becomes nullified. One of its postulates was to take an unbeliever’s stance though, and the consequences for that. One still has to consider the other gods into the equation, and this is when the mathematical odds go up considerably. Not doing so, leaves the equation incomplete. Even if you stayed in the framework of your bible, there are too many contrasting differences to assume the OT god is the same as the NT god, and Christians are probably breaking the 1st commandment when Jehovah said not to have any other gods before him. Christians are making a huge assumption that Jesus was also a part of this god. You better hope that Jehovah doesn’t beat the Jesus out of ya. Another huge assumption is thinking a God really has this need to be believed, and that he would punish you if you didn’t. I know it plays well with some Christians though, but quite a few Christians have gotten away from taking hell seriously anymore. You can’t force someone to believe in something, any more than I could convince you or myself that 2+3=7. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/572 "2013-02-18T19:47:59Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > It is kinda funny how at the top of every page you have the “Fighting ignorance since 1973” quote. It is indeed taking longer than we thought. If you define ignorance as that which you don’t believe. I think you will be fighting ignorance for at least another ten billions years, maybe more. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/573 "2013-02-18T19:52:23Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > One of its postulates was to take an unbeliever’s stance though, and the consequences for that. One still has to consider the other gods into the equation, and this is when the mathematical odds go up considerably. Not doing so, leaves the equation incomplete. > > Even if you stayed in the framework of your bible, there are too many contrasting differences to assume the OT god is the same as the NT god, and Christians are probably breaking the 1st commandment when Jehovah said not to have any other gods before him. Christians are making a huge assumption that Jesus was also a part of this god. You better hope that Jehovah doesn’t beat the Jesus out of ya. > > Another huge assumption is thinking a God really has this need to be believed, and that he would punish you if you didn’t. I know it plays well with some Christians though, but quite a few Christians have gotten away from taking hell seriously anymore. > > You can’t force someone to believe in something, any more than I could convince you or myself that 2+3=7. Your post indicates your poor understanding of Christianity. Other preceding posts from different writers profess they have never heard that Christianity is not a religion. Tell you what, please take the time and read the link I posted in its entirety. It could be an eye-opener. \*\*[Christianity is NOT Religion](http://www.christinyou.net/pages/Xnotrel.html) \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/574 "2013-02-18T20:01:01Z")
Using the definition of religion found in most(if not all) secular dictionaries, Christianity is a religion. We have no reason to accept your special definition. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/575 "2013-02-18T20:02:05Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Your post indicates your poor understanding of Christianity. Other preceding posts from different writers profess they have never heard that Christianity is not a religion. > > Tell you what, please take the time and read the link I posted in its entirety. It could be an eye-opener. > > \*\*[Christianity is NOT Religion](http://www.christinyou.net/pages/Xnotrel.html) \*\* Well I have heard it plenty of times here and elsewhere, and sorry you don’t understand sarcasm. And I’ll just stick to the standard dictionary definition of religion, despite how many long-winded conservative Christian apologetics like to think their brand of Christianity is something special when it’s just more horseshit that gets stacked on the pile. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/576 "2013-02-18T20:02:51Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Tell you what, please take the time and read the link I posted in its entirety. It could be an eye-opener. > > \*\*[Christianity is NOT Religion](http://www.christinyou.net/pages/Xnotrel.html) \*\* The notion that Christianity is not a religion is so silly it isn’t worth the energy it would take to click on your link. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/577 "2013-02-18T20:03:19Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Your post indicates your poor understanding of Christianity. Other preceding posts from different writers profess they have never heard that Christianity is not a religion. > > Tell you what, please take the time and read the link I posted in its entirety. It could be an eye-opener. > > \*\*[Christianity is NOT Religion](http://www.christinyou.net/pages/Xnotrel.html) \*\* The essay defines religion as those aspects of religion that the author does not like: “a set of rules and regulations, to rituals of devotion, to a creedal belief-system, or to a cause, ideology, or routine.” Then, posits that true Christianity is not a religion, since it is exclusive of those things. Here’s the problem: Religion _actually_ [means:](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion?s=t) > [@](#): > > 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. > > 2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. > > 3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions. > > 4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion. > > 5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. Yep, Christianity is a religion. Sorry to have to break it to you. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/578 "2013-02-18T20:08:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Using the definition of religion found in most(if not all) secular dictionaries, Christianity is a religion. We have no reason to accept your special definition. Is that the “royal we” 😃 Catch ya’s later, off to something else. It’s been fun. No offense intended on any snappy answers. I love all people regardless of their convictions. Seriously. I just think that sometimes especially when we are intelligent, our egos can blind us into trusting in intellect alone. Some smart folks have figured out a way around that. Some of you unbelievers here are pretty hard core militant. Funny how the boards in the International High IQ Society the luminaries there are even more tolerant of people of faith, and more open-minded than some people here. Not sure what that implies, if anything at all. Peace out ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/579 "2013-02-18T20:11:51Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > If you define ignorance as that which you don’t believe. I think you will be fighting ignorance for at least another ten billions years, maybe more. Is that an endictment of science or the resilience of ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/580 "2013-02-18T20:16:09Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Catch ya’s later, off to something else. It’s been fun. No offense intended on any snappy answers. I love all people regardless of their convictions. Seriously. I just think that sometimes especially when we are intelligent, our egos can blind us into trusting in intellect alone. Some smart folks have figured out a way around that. Some of you unbelievers here are pretty hard core militant. Funny how the boards in the International High IQ Society the luminaries there are even more tolerant of people of faith, and more open-minded than some people here. Not sure what that implies, if anything at all. Protestations to the contrary, it wasn’t hard to get what you are implying-subtle, you’re not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=30)