# evidence for god? some one said so. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896 "2013-01-21T08:55:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/641 "2013-03-01T17:37:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Rational thought is the only process secure enough to say, “I don’t know.” Religion is terrified of the unknown, and must fill it with fanciful beings and mythology so it isn’t so scary. People of faith don’t fear, they understand their human limitations. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/642 "2013-03-01T17:40:33Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > People of faith don’t fear, they understand their human limitations. Can they give us the connection between Creativity and their god? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/643 "2013-03-01T17:41:15Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If creativity comes from God, I, who am pretty creative, should be able to create music. I can’t, because I am tone deaf and quite ignorant about music. Beethoven, who was not, could be and was extremely creative, much of which came from working old concepts into new ideas. Choral music and symphonies were both known - Beethoven combined them. > > My creative ideas come from mixing up concepts from several different places together. I’ve read Hemingway, Shakespeare, Frost, and computer manuals - so I wrote a piece that gave a piece of a Windows manual as written by them. I also am familiar with old Mad Magazine pieces that did this kind of thing. No God or gods involved, I assure you. Ah but where does the seed of that creativity come from? I read all kinds of books and play music, but I could never compose like Beehtoven or write like Shakespeare. The fact that I do it is unremarkable, the fact that there are people who are genius and don’t know why or how they are is fascinating. Consider Mozart, a genius at 5 year old. Where does it come from? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/644 "2013-03-01T17:41:47Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > People of faith don’t fear, they understand their human limitations. How un-Christian of you. [http://www.feargod.net/verses.php](http://www.feargod.net/verses.php) ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/645 "2013-03-01T17:42:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can they give us the connection between Creativity and their god? It’s the mystery of the Divine. I don’t know where the brilliance of Michaelangelo comes from, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/646 "2013-03-01T17:43:50Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Ah but where does the seed of that creativity come from? I read all kinds of books and play music, but I could never compose like Beehtoven or write like Shakespeare. The fact that I do it is unremarkable, the fact that there are people who are genius and don’t know why or how they are is fascinating. Consider Mozart, a genius at 5 year old. Where does it come from? Show us the connection Between Creativity and your particular religion’s god. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/647 "2013-03-01T17:43:58Z")
You have still to explain the link between creativity and your god,\*\* Andie.\*\* If evidence of anything it would be evidence of Greek mythology being true. Voyager obvioulsy having a bad relationship with the Muse of music. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/648 "2013-03-01T17:44:54Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Ah but where does the seed of that creativity come from? I read all kinds of books and play music, but I could never compose like Beehtoven or write like Shakespeare. The fact that I do it is unremarkable, the fact that there are people who are genius and don’t know why or how they are is fascinating. Consider Mozart, a genius at 5 year old. Where does it come from? No one here has to have the answer for “then God did it” to become the default answer. The ancients didn’t understand how the water cycle worked. That didn’t make “a rain god does it” the default answer either. ---
**Author:** ![TeaRowz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@TeaRowz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaRowz)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/649 "2013-03-01T17:46:19Z")
> [@TeaRowz](#): > > Sadly, the point you make is all too true. > > However, when even the many religious leaders who have taught the religious ideas they absolutely believed in for years, finally realize they were wrong about everything, something planted the first seed of doubt. > > That something could have been a post at an online forum - even one that may not be a model of grammar, punctuation or spelling. > > People of religious faith may have read many, many arguments, but it may be a simple choice of words or a subtle difference in, or shade of meaning or expression in an argument that finally breaks through the nearly stubborn shell of religious belief. > > I think the OP realizes this, and is simply hoping to plant a seed of doubt. (Attempted unsuccessfully to edit the word “nearly” out of this post.) ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/650 "2013-03-01T17:46:42Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > How un-Christian of you. > > [http://www.feargod.net/verses.php](http://www.feargod.net/verses.php) I would say how Old Testament of you. I’m more of the “Be Not Afraid” New Testament type. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/651 "2013-03-01T17:47:07Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > It’s the mystery of the Divine. I don’t know where the brilliance of Michaelangelo comes from, do you? So you now claim you _don’t_ know where Creativity comes from? Now that we have dismissed “Creativity” as evidence for your god, do you have anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/652 "2013-03-01T17:49:36Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > No one here has to have the answer for “then God did it” to become the default answer. The ancients didn’t understand how the water cycle worked. That didn’t make “a rain god does it” the default answer either. Come now. That’s Ancient History. We’re talking NOW. Why haven’t you proved that Creativity Doesn’t come from the Divine. It’s been Thousands of years in the making ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/653 "2013-03-01T17:52:56Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Come now. That’s Ancient History. We’re talking NOW. Why haven’t you proved that Creativity Doesn’t come from the Divine. It’s been Thousands of years in the making But you just said that you don’t know where it comes from? If you are changing your mind again please tell us the connection between Creativity and the god of your sect. edited to add: The default position, “We Don’t Know Yet”, _never_ has to be proven. It is on your shoulders to provide evidence for your asseertion. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/654 "2013-03-01T17:54:40Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > I would say how Old Testament of you. I’m more of the “Be Not Afraid” New Testament type. Same God, right? **Luke** _12:4-5 "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him._ **1Peter** \*1:17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. 2:17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.\* **Revelation** \*14:6-7 Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth–to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.” 15:4 Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed."\* I can post more if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/655 "2013-03-01T17:56:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you now claim you _don’t_ know where Creativity comes from? Now that we have dismissed “Creativity” as evidence for your god, do you have anything else? My faith is sufficiently comfortable in the knowledge that I don’t need to know where creativity is generated, but that it exists. You on the other hand need some empirical evidence to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/656 "2013-03-01T17:57:41Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > My faith is sufficiently comfortable in the knowledge that I don’t need to know where creativity is generated, but that it exists. You on the other hand need some empirical evidence to explain it. No, _you_ are making the claim that creativity is evidence for God. Remember?. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/657 "2013-03-01T17:57:44Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > My faith is sufficiently comfortable in the knowledge that I don’t need to know where creativity is generated, but that it exists. You on the other hand need some empirical evidence to explain it. And you need to re-read the title of this thread. _You_ claimed that Creativity is evidence for your god. Back it up. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/658 "2013-03-01T17:58:06Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Come now. That’s Ancient History. We’re talking NOW. Why haven’t you proved that Creativity Doesn’t come from the Divine. It’s been Thousands of years in the making Why haven’t you learned that the burden of proof that God exists in the believer, not the one that doesn’t believe until the evidence shows up? It’s up to you to show me that creativity must have come from a god. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/659 "2013-03-01T18:01:18Z")
Living your life questioning the existence of God does nothing to detract the believers. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896/660 "2013-03-01T18:04:56Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Living your life questioning the existence of God does nothing to detract the believers. I’ve never had any question about the existence of your(or any) god. You came to this thread about evidence for the existence of gods-do you have anything to contribute to the subject? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-for-god-some-one-said-so/647896.md?page=34)