# Evidence Russians are Attempting to Influence the US Election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 11, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215 "2016-10-11T05:03:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/1 "2016-10-11T05:03:10Z")
This seems really important and as the author of the piece says, terrifying, which is why I gave it it’s own thread. Kurt Eichenwald at Newsweek, along with Washington Post reporter David A. Fahrenthold, has done some amazing investigative journalism unearthing Donald Trump’s history. However Eichenwald just published a piece in which reveled something about Trump’s present. The piece, entitled [Dear Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, I Am Not Sidney Blumenthal](http://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-sidney-blumenthal-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-benghazi-sputnik-508635), made the writer news because Russian propaganda mill _Sputnik_ used his own words in a piece prompted when WikiLeaks unearthed emails taken from John Podesta, the chairman of Clinton’s election campaign: > [@](#): > > Almost as soon as the pilfered documents emerged, Sputnik was all over them and rapidly found (or probably already knew about before the Wikileaks dump) a purportedly incriminating email from Blumenthal. > > The email was amazing—it linked Boogie Man Blumenthal, Podesta and the topic of conservative political fevered dreams, Benghazi. This, it seemed, was the smoking gun finally proving Clinton bore total responsibility for the terrorist attack on the American outpost in Libya in 2012. Sputnik even declared that the email might be the “October surprise” that could undermine Clinton’s campaign. Eichenwald noticed the _Sputnik_ article “quoting two sentences from a 10,000 word piece I wrote for Newsweek, which Blumenthal had emailed to Podesta… There was no mistaking that Blumenthal was citing Newsweek—the magazine’s name and citations for photographs appeared throughout the attached article. The Russians had carefully selected the ‘of course’ paragraph, which mentions there were legitimate points of criticism regarding Clinton and Benghazi.” Of course the Russian outlet did not quote the part of the article summing up the Benghazi investigation as “a political show trial disguised as a Congressional investigation.” _Sputnik_ quietly removed the piece soon after publishing it - the only evidence of it gaining any traction was a link to the Sputnik article in a Turkish publication. So, Russian hackers and their state-controlled media are incompetent. But that’s not where the story ends because mere hours later at a campaign stop in Pennsylvania, Trump inexplicably referenced the fleeting-yet-bogus article as red meat to his rabid supporters. > [@](#): > > This is not funny. It is terrifying. The Russians engage in a sloppy disinformation effort and, before the day is out, the Republican nominee for president is standing on a stage reciting the manufactured story as truth. How did this happen? Who in the Trump campaign was feeding him falsehoods straight from the Kremlin? > > The Russians have been obtaining American emails and now are presenting complete misrepresentations of them—falsifying them—in hopes of setting off a cascade of events that might change the outcome of the presidential election. The big question, of course, is why are the Russians working so hard to damage Clinton and, in the process, aid Donald Trump? > > So no, Mr. Putin, I’m not Sidney Blumenthal. And now that you have been exposed once again, get the hell out of our election. And Mr. Trump—you have some explaining to do. I realize that none of this is as “sexy” a story as Trump’s recent and well-publicized problems with that 2005 video, but it seems to me to be a hell of a lot more important - and yes, terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/2 "2016-10-11T05:17:44Z")
If Trump is not being run directly by Russia, then he is serving as their useful idiot. I suspect that there is a direct connection from Russia running through the Briebart organization. Whether Trump is fully cognisant of this connection or not… is an open question, considering how fundamentally stupid he is. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/3 "2016-10-11T05:38:03Z")
Regarding the Eichenwald story, is it reasonable to assume that someone on Trump’s staff was keeping a watchful eye out for all Wikileaks-related stories, even ones published by the sketchy state-run Russian news agency, and printing them out for DT as soon as they dropped? Does that theory leave anything unexplained? Because that would be a more “innocent” (and slightly less terrifying) read of this whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/4 "2016-10-11T05:44:25Z")
Trump’s campaign seems to be VERY quickly connected to much of the disinformation coming from Russian propaganda sources. If the campaign is not being sent it directly, then they certainly regularly check the Russian sources for new leads. The various folks in Trump’s campaign over the months seem to have close Russian ties… ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/5 "2016-10-11T06:02:40Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Regarding the Eichenwald story, is it reasonable to assume that someone on Trump’s staff was keeping a watchful eye out for all Wikileaks-related stories, even ones published by the sketchy state-run Russian news agency, and printing them out for DT as soon as they dropped? Does that theory leave anything unexplained? Because that would be a more “innocent” (and slightly less terrifying) read of this whole thing. This is possible, but I have to think that there are plenty of people, journalists, bloggers, etc. constantly scouring the web for these kinds of leaks, yet apparently none of them saw this. If they had then it almost certainly would have been all over the web in short order. So Trump’s campaign just happened to stumble across this when no one else did? It’s not impossible but it seems unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/6 "2016-10-11T06:04:08Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Regarding the Eichenwald story, is it reasonable to assume that someone on Trump’s staff was keeping a watchful eye out for all Wikileaks-related stories, even ones published by the sketchy state-run Russian news agency, and printing them out for DT as soon as they dropped? Does that theory leave anything unexplained? Because that would be a more “innocent” (and slightly less terrifying) read of this whole thing. That certainly seems plausible to me, but it’s still terrifying, because it shows how easily Trump is manipulated into acting in the interests of a foreign power. It doesn’t really matter if Trump is doing it knowingly or not if Putin can pull his strings and make him dance whenever he wants. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/7 "2016-10-11T06:30:20Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > This seems\*\* really important and as the author of the piece says, terrifying,\*\* which is why I gave it it’s own thread. > > . :rolleyes: Pot, meet kettle. Americans are upset that a foreign power is trying to influence elections? Oh that is fucking hilarious. Who does that…wait a minute. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/8 "2016-10-12T13:28:58Z")
Here is [Salon’s take](http://www.salon.com/2016/10/11/russian-propaganda-on-wikileaks-makes-its-way-into-a-donald-trump-speech-in-record-time) on it: > [@](#): > > The speed with which an article made its way from Sputnik to Trump’s tiny hands should give anyone pause. It’s been obvious for a long time that the Trump campaign is dependent on Russian propaganda for its talking points, but this shows that it is almost certainly going straight to the source. > > To be clear, this doesn’t mean Trump is working for the Russians or even that they have a Russian mole on his staff, feeding him clips. (Though he did directly hire Paul Manafort, who has a history of ties to Putin loyalists, to run his campaign, so honestly, that’s not a stretch.) All the Russian propagandists need is a basic understanding of human psychology. > > What this does confirm, however, is that the Trump camp’s half-hearted disavowals about loving Putin and his right-wing government are so much bullshit, since they clearly don’t even wait for Russian propaganda to filter out to American websites to read it. No, Trump exposed that he or someone on his team is constantly hitting Russian propaganda outlets, waiting for Russian-crafted talking points to work into his speeches. > > It is terrifying, but it’s also funny, albeit in a pitch black sense of humor sort of way. It’s not funny that Putin is trying to play us this way, but it’s straight-up hilarious watching so many people who think they are so smart, both on the right and on the Hillary-hating left, being so easily manipulated by Putin’s people. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/9 "2016-10-12T13:36:56Z")
Terrifying or otherwise, I think we need to accept this as the new normal and take measures to minimize the risk/impact. And yeah, it’s not like we’re innocent virgins on this matter… ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/10 "2016-10-12T14:14:22Z")
Not at all. Russians Attempting to Influence the US Election? Sure. Evidence? This? No. It’s bog standard Vast American Right Wing Conspiracy stuff, a la Breitbart and Infowars. No need to drag any Russians into this. Clearly Trump got this piece of conspiracy mongering, like many other ones, through his [well known Breitbart connection](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/11/breitbart-boss-stephen-bannon-bragged-in-2015-i-m-trump-s-campaign-manager.html), not through the Russians. It’s true that there’s an obscure Russian site out there that carries some of this routine anti Hillary right wing conspiracy material. Why not? I don’t see why that’s so significant. It’s the exact same stuff that has been peddled on any number of American sites for decades. [This blog by Glenn Greenwald](https://theintercept.com/2016/10/11/in-the-democratic-echo-chamber-inconvenient-truths-are-recast-as-putin-plots/) argues that Hillary supporters making a big deal out of this are just as blinded by their zealotry as the anti Hillary conspirationists. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/11 "2016-10-12T14:34:46Z")
My current working hypothesis for the Trump candidacy: As Trump became increasingly toxic to investors, he found that the only folks who would still lend him money were those who took collateral in kneecaps and blood. Since he’s thoroughly addicted to spending other peoples’ money, he couldn’t just stop borrowing, and so he accepted a deal with one or more such shady moneylenders. One of the lenders he borrowed from was the Russian mob, of which Putin is one of the more prominent members. When it became apparent that he couldn’t afford to pay them back any more than he could pay back any of his legitimate creditors, they offered him a deal: Run for President under their orders. They probably figured it was a longshot, but with a sufficiently-high potential payout to be worth the gamble. Now, even if he loses, they can still assassinate a few of his family members, but that won’t get blood from a stone, and they’d much prefer for their gamble to pay off, so they’re spending a little of their own money to try to help him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/12 "2016-10-12T14:37:57Z")
> [@Frankenstein\_Monster](#): > > Not at all. > > Russians Attempting to Influence the US Election? Sure. Evidence? This? No. > > It’s bog standard Vast American Right Wing Conspiracy stuff, a la Breitbart and Infowars. No need to drag any Russians into this. > > Clearly Trump got this piece of conspiracy mongering, like many other ones, through his [well known Breitbart connection](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/11/breitbart-boss-stephen-bannon-bragged-in-2015-i-m-trump-s-campaign-manager.html), not through the Russians. > > It’s true that there’s an obscure Russian site out there that carries some of this routine anti Hillary right wing conspiracy material. Why not? I don’t see why that’s so significant. It’s the exact same stuff that has been peddled on any number of American sites for decades. > > [This blog by Glenn Greenwald](https://theintercept.com/2016/10/11/in-the-democratic-echo-chamber-inconvenient-truths-are-recast-as-putin-plots/) argues that Hillary supporters making a big deal out of this are just as blinded by their zealotry as the anti Hillary conspirationists. I think you are constantly ignoring that me an others here do think that the leaks are not fake, but the spin and the reporting of them by Trump, Fox news and others is. As pointed before, you only need to check that virtually the same groups that are twisting the leaked material did just about the same maneuvers with the mundane leaked emails from climate scientists. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/13 "2016-10-12T14:39:35Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :rolleyes: > Pot, meet kettle. > > Americans are upset that a foreign power is trying to influence elections? Oh that is fucking hilarious. Who does that…wait a minute. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/14 "2016-10-12T14:40:58Z")
Since first hearing this story I’ve thought it would make an excellent Tom Clancy type book. Russians find some TV star sympathetic to their cause, flood his coffers with money and get him elected POTUS. Then he turns over all US secrets to the Russians, etc, etc. Really, somebody here needs to wrote this book. Maybe that will finally get people and this country to take internet security seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/15 "2016-10-12T14:44:07Z")
> [@Frankenstein\_Monster](#): > > Clearly Trump got this piece of conspiracy mongering, like many other ones, through his [well known Breitbart connection](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/11/breitbart-boss-stephen-bannon-bragged-in-2015-i-m-trump-s-campaign-manager.html), not through the Russians. But this particular quote, in the false context that Trump used, was invented by the Russians. And was only published in that form for a brief window. ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/16 "2016-10-12T14:46:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think you are constantly ignoring that me an others here do think that the leaks are not fake, but the spin and the reporting of them by Trump, Fox news and others is. Ignoring? That’s exactly what I was arguing in that other thread. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > As pointed before, you only need to check that virtually the same groups that are twisting the leaked material did just about the same maneuvers with the mundane leaked emails from climate scientists. Yes. Exactly. Breitbart. Vast American Right Wing Conspiracy (a handful of whom might be Russian freelancer hackers). ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/17 "2016-10-12T14:55:11Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > But this particular quote, in the false context that Trump used, was invented by the Russians. And was only published in that form for a brief window. What we know is, it appeared on a Russian run Web site. What we can see is, that same site carries a large quantity of the exact same Right Wing Conspiracy material (high grade, quality stuff) that has been carried for decades on equivalent American sites. My conclusion from this is that it’s part and parcel of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, although possibly contributed, or endorsed, or maybe just duplicated by some of their ragtag Russian sympathizers. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/18 "2016-10-12T15:01:27Z")
> [@Frankenstein\_Monster](#): > > Ignoring? That’s exactly what I was arguing in that other thread. > > Yes. Exactly. Breitbart. Vast American Right Wing Conspiracy (a handful of whom might be Russian freelancer hackers). And if that was your angle that would be ok, but that is not what the twice cited blogger you linked to does: > [@](#): > > Those tactics now most prominently include dismissing away any facts or documents that reflect negatively on their leaders as fake, and strongly insinuating that anyone who questions or opposes those leaders is a stooge or agent of the Kremlin, The writer dumps the point I was making about Trump being most likely a stooge and just goes about the ridiculous item of being an agent. It is indeed trying to make a lot of the supporters of Clinton to sound silly but It becomes a straw man when you use bits like that when trying to keep the Russians away from **any** wrongdoing. > **[Trump Knows ‘Nothing About Russia,’ He Just Repeats Their Propaganda](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/10/trump-knows-nothing-about-russia-repeats-their-propaganda.html)** > > He read a false story from a Kremlin-operated outlet on the campaign trail. > [@](#): > > Trump Knows ‘Nothing About Russia,’ He Just Repeats Their Propaganda > [@](#): > > The simplest answer doesn’t involve the Kremlin directly feeding talking points to Trump, but it does highlight the disturbing, symbiotic relationship between the Trump campaign, state-operated Russian sources, and the alt right. > > As Talking Points Memo explains, Sputnik News is like an alt-right version of RT: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > As Foreign Policy put it two years ago, if RT is a Russian mix of Deutsche Welle and [Voice of America], Sputnik News is their propaganda Buzzfeed or maybe more like some combination of Free Beacon and the supermarket weekly world news. It’s punchy, conversant or maybe more more like sorta conversant in all the new-fangled Internet memes. At least in its American incarnation it’s basically Russian propaganda for millennials. > > > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/19 "2016-10-12T15:03:52Z")
> [@Frankenstein\_Monster](#): > > What we know is, it appeared on a Russian run Web site. And nowhere else, as I understand it. And it was a kind of dumb _mistake,_ which that one Russian site took down within hours. But Trump was already using it. Either it was handed to the Trump campaign by Russians, or it didn’t have to be, because the Trump campaign is following Russian propaganda pretty closely on its own already. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215/20 "2016-10-12T15:09:24Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Either it was handed to the Trump campaign by Russians, or it didn’t have to be, because the Trump campaign is following Russian propaganda pretty closely on its own already. Or, as I pointed out in another thread, someone in the Trump campaign has a google alert set up to pick up any stories about “Clinton AND wikileaks AND Benghazi”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evidence-russians-are-attempting-to-influence-the-us-election/768215.md?page=2)