# Evil Dead Mafia II - Teaser and Sign-Ups \[Game On!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 29, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493 "2010-09-29T17:35:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/761 "2010-10-06T21:12:40Z")
> [@Mrs\_McGinty](#): > > Maybe I’m actually that good… 🆒 \ maybe you are full of shit. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mrs\_McGinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6bbea6/32.png) [@Mrs\_McGinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs_McGinty)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/762 "2010-10-06T21:13:51Z")
Oh, and I never said he doesn’t pay attention when he’s town. I said that he doesn’t pay as much attention. Also, is it really so hard to believe that a player pays more attention to the game - and to what he’s posting - when he’s scum than when he’s town? ---
**Author:** ![Mrs\_McGinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6bbea6/32.png) [@Mrs\_McGinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs_McGinty)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/763 "2010-10-06T21:14:56Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > maybe you are full of shit. 😃 Probably a bit of both. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/764 "2010-10-06T21:25:50Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > With Romantic gone, my main suspicions shift to three people. > > 1. **Oredigger** and **GuiriEnEspaña** are, more or less, tied for being the most suspicious in my opinion. > 2. **Drain Bead** is also (still), but less than the others. > > \*\*Oredigger \*\*and **Drain Bead** for things previously pointed out by others and myself and **Guiri** for an exchange that starts [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12989809&postcount=466) in post 466. In it, Special Ed is the first to vote for **Romantic**. Guiri then follows that post with [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12989819&postcount=467), post 467, where she clearly says she’s “not convinced” there are only 4 scum. She even says that it wasn’t the case in the first game as a reason she thinks it’s unlikely. > **Special Ed** replied next post ([post 468](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12989827&postcount=468)). > And suddenly, we have a complete turn around. A total 180 from **Guiri** , where she [votes for him](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12989830&postcount=469). Buh? > This really seems/feels/appears like a huge “uh okay, me too” type post. One where it seems likely a bandwagon will start and so someone’s rushing to get on it. > The argument could be made, I’m sure, that Guiri was just convinced or had a change of opinion due to Ed’s post 468, but that fast? Folding that quickly? Not offering any sort of another counter argument after saying she wasn’t convinced? > > I dunno, just seems really off to me. It’s something that stood out majorly to me at the time of reading it. And since I already had the same thought **Brewha** did in [post 480](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12989947&postcount=480) (“If that is the case, I’m pretty sure that at least one of those quick to vote for him is opportunistic scum that just found a good reason to place a vote on a townie.”), my suspicion of her turned on. Hmm. I believe there’s a difference between “not convinced” and “not quite convinced” - which are the words I actually used in the post you linked to. Nice omission… I saw a player making an apparent PIS slip. This was a new player who had just made his second post since the start of the Day. I was unable to reconcile the low number of scum with my experience in previous games and the original version of this game so I was “not quite convinced” that this was a case of a PIS slip and therefore hesitant to vote immediately. First I questioned **Romanic** directly about the statement - he basically said he’d mixed up this game with another one. A moment of “hmm”, but still no vote as there was the issue with the low number of scum. Then, when **Special Ed** placed his vote, I asked **Special Ed** how the number could possibly be correct - he replied with several scenarios in which a 4-person scum team could be feasible. **Special Ed** had previously commented about how we tend to give newbie players the benefit of the doubt - I realized that part of my hesitance to vote was due to exactly this and since there was a way the numbers made sense, I placed my vote. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/765 "2010-10-06T21:45:34Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > This strikes me as fishing, and thus fishy. I don’t have anything else compelling to vote on, so **Vote NAF1138** , and a second, non-binding vote on **Total Lost**. Hey, it looks like I have a soapbox topic. Scum don’t need to fish. One more time. Scum don’t need to fish. Say it with me this time so you get the feel for it. Scum don’t need to fish. Really, they don’t, it’s true. I almost guarantee you that any time barring maybe three early games that I can think of when scum has been “caught” fishing the actual player will come back and tell you that, no, they weren’t actually fishing it just looked that way. Scum know who other scum are. Scum know that ANYONE else is a quality target. Scum know that in a balanced game there are some power roles that can probably hurt them, but that the odds will take care of that fairly quickly as long as they are smart. Scum also know that 9 times out of 10 power roles sit around and practically scream out that they are power roles. I have never played on a scum team, ever, where we didn’t know who the majority of the power roles were by mid game, and most of the time we knew what type of role they were. It’s easy to find power roles as scum, just look for the people who are acting scummy. Scum don’t need to fish. Scum who actively fish are either inexperienced or just don’t know any better, the rest weren’t actually intending to fish for anything. Fishing is a crappy scum tell. You know who you usually catch fishing? POWER ROLES. So fishing is a bad reason for a vote. Ok, moving on and getting off my soapbox. > [@](#): > > That could be a simple admission of fact, or an excuse for playing differently from the way he has in the past. I don’t know well enough to judge. Oy!, you don’t know me, you admit as much in the quote. So don’t try to build a case on how my play is different this game. It’s not cool. And don’t say you weren’t using it to build a case, because you included it in your case post. Let other people judge that one. I will get to the personal life stuff later in this post, but really you don’t know. As for the claim discussion: If you \*did \*know me you would know that for probably the last 15 games or so that I have played in I have pushed for town to give up harmless bits of information early on. Almost every game. Town hurts themselves by holding back information and the more we know the better off we are. I think I have said something to that effect in this game already. Something about how this is a game about information vs numbers. I am fairly sure I have. Go look. Point 2, on mass claiming. Go back and quote my post where I “mildly push” for a mass claim. Go on and take a look at it. I did not advocate a mass claim, nor did I call for one. I \*specifically \*did neither of those things. All I did was bring up a discussion topic, and a fruitful one at that. (It got us our first solid piece if information today after all). You don’t see me directly advocating any one position over another in this game until \*\*Drain \*\*and \*\*Total \*\*start talking about posting bit’s of color. It’s an idea I like. Mostly because I can easily lock myself into a bit of color that could be used against me if I tried to fake claim, but that doesn’t reveal anything about my status as a vanilla or power role. But also notice that I didn’t push hard. That’s because I don’t really care about the result of the conversation, I care about the conversation. That’s where you end up catching scum. It’s in the in between bits. > [@](#): > > Guess whatever he had to leave for wasn’t that important. Hell of a smudge there buddy boy. It’s this sort of thing that I don’t like about your post. You include these little digs that don’t accomplish anything but are designed to make me look bad when in reality they aren’t actually anything. It’s like the bit about not knowing me above so you don’t know if I am setting up safety for change in play style. We call this smudging. (We call a lot of other stuff smudging too, but anyone who uses the term in any other way is wrong. Trust me.) You don’t know what I have going on in my personal life on this side of the computer screen. I am going to put this down to a culture thing, but we generally operate on the assumption that people don’t lie about real life stuff, and in return we don’t lie about real life stuff. Also, I believe I said I only had 15 minutes to play right then. Admittedly I haven’t gone back to look, but since you didn’t link to anything I don’t think anyone else will either. Convenient that you didn’t provide links isn’t it? (See I can smudge too). I play on my breaks at work or if I am on hold on the phone or something, sometimes I spend time playing when I shouldn’t. That’s my problem not yours. If I play longer than I should have it doesn’t make me scum, it makes me an addict. As for wanting the Necronomicon, yup, I wanted it. I made no secret of it. So did several others. It was early in the game and I have trouble resisting shiny things. I also think I should be allowed to keep it, but I will do whatever town wants in that regard, I don’t really care. So, what I have to ask is, what is it that you thought was scummy enough to get me a vote over other folk? Couldn’t be the fishing, because that isn’t actually a quality tell. And the rest of your post actually had nothing to do with anything other than trying to make me look vaguely suspicious. So why are you voting for me again? I am going to have to ask that this time you actually say why you think something is scummy rather than just saying it is. Normally this would be the point where I place a vote on you for your bullshit case, but you are new and enthusiastic and I think this is a case of the newbies not a case of scum trying to grab a lynch. So no vote right now. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/766 "2010-10-06T21:52:41Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > > > With Romantic gone, my main suspicions shift to three people. > > > > 1. **Oredigger** and **GuiriEnEspaña** are, more or less, tied for being the most suspicious in my opinion. > > 2. **Drain Bead** is also (still), but less than the others. > > Snipped the rest of the post, but this post bothers me. You spend most of it talking about **Guiri** , then end up voting for **Oredigger**. If it weren’t for the fact that nobody else has mentioned **Guiri** , I’d think you were trying to get cred if **Guiri** later flips Scum by mentioning how scummy you thought he was. But if you truly are scumbuddies, this is something that could backfire if people actually buy your case against him. I find this more scummy when the player you don’t vote for actually has the potential to end up on the block. Still, I’m moderately pinged. Aaargh. **unvote** **vote: Drain Bead** **unvote** **vote: Oredigger** “If it weren’t for the fact that the suspicion of Guiri actually did need explanation, whereas the vote on Oredigger did not; and despite that it could backfire if it was a soft bussing; I think this might be scummy. Except more so if Guiri might actually get lynched today, which he won’t. But maybe.” ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/767 "2010-10-06T21:54:18Z")
LOL. I like your soapbox, NAF. Can I climb up there with you? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/768 "2010-10-06T21:55:34Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > LOL. I like your soapbox, NAF. Can I climb up there with you? Tons of room up here and frankly I could use the company. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/769 "2010-10-06T22:00:22Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > > > With Romantic gone, my main suspicions shift to three people. > > > > 1. **Oredigger** and **GuiriEnEspaña** are, more or less, tied for being the most suspicious in my opinion. > > 2. **Drain Bead** is also (still), but less than the others. > > Snipped the rest of the post, but this post bothers me. You spend most of it talking about **Guiri** , then end up voting for **Oredigger**. If it weren’t for the fact that nobody else has mentioned **Guiri** , I’d think you were trying to get cred if **Guiri** later flips Scum by mentioning how scummy you thought he was. But if you truly are scumbuddies, this is something that could backfire if people actually buy your case against him. I find this more scummy when the player you don’t vote for actually has the potential to end up on the block. Still, I’m moderately pinged. I, for one, was not at all confused. 1. Idle mentioned his case against Drain 2. Idle Acknowledged the case against Oredigger 3. Idle presented a case against Guiri. Then he voted Oredigger. Doesn’t seem all that strange that he though the case he brought up wasn’t the best one. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/770 "2010-10-06T22:03:35Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > I don’t like the case on **Oredigger** or **Mrs McGinty**. > > Once **Romanic** messed up, pretty much all reaction to him was, as far as I’m concerned, a null tell. It was a huge mess up that pretty much had to be voted for, but it was also a huge bandwagon that anyone could hop on. Both Town and Scum could see both those things, and everything anyone said about it could be interpreted in light of either Town or Scum and make perfect sense. And now come the inevitable recriminations. So, because the case was so strong against Romanic all reactions to it are null tells? Really? Did you actually read the comments that Oredigger made? Those comments that he himself admitted look Scummy? Maybe you should go back and read them before you handwave them off. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/771 "2010-10-06T22:08:19Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > > [@Oy](#): > > > > This strikes me as fishing, and thus fishy. I don’t have anything else compelling to vote on, so **Vote NAF1138** , and a second, non-binding vote on **Total Lost**. > > Hey, it looks like I have a soapbox topic. > > Scum don’t need to fish. > > One more time. > > Scum don’t need to fish. > > Say it with me this time so you get the feel for it. In the Original Evil Dead, Scum Macey was lynched on Day 1 for obvious fishing. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/772 "2010-10-06T22:10:18Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > In the Original Evil Dead, Scum Macey was lynched on Day 1 for obvious fishing. I’m just saying… ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/773 "2010-10-06T22:13:03Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > In the Original Evil Dead, Scum Macey was lynched on Day 1 for obvious fishing. > > I’m just saying… Note the newbie clause. Also, I believe that Macey came back and said that she wasn’t actually fishing in a dead thread, but I could be misremembering. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/774 "2010-10-06T22:20:24Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > I’m just saying… > > Note the newbie clause. Also, I believe that Macey came back and said that she wasn’t actually fishing in a dead thread, but I could be misremembering. I suppose Macey was newer back them. He had played a bit on Facebook. (And I think that is the only game he played off of facebook) Here’s his actual quote that got him into trouble. It is oozing fishy smells. I think it is extra fishy because he was actively fishing for information from a Day 1 claimed Mason. (who had stupidly stated “got my role…looks cool” Which honestly, the roles did look cool, as long as they weren’t the already published Vanilla ones) > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/123): > > **pedescribe** , is there any more you can tell us about your role then? What does it say? Anything Alpha-Beta related? > > I’m asking because I feel that you’ve given up a little too easily. Why would the other masons agree to you claiming so early? Or did you decide this by yourself? > > Don’t tell us how many there are of you, I don’t think it’s wise giving that one away. ---
**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/775 "2010-10-06T22:31:40Z")
Well, that was disappointing. I really thought we had a repeat of Harry Potter’s Day 1. Sorry, Romanic. Nice plates. Well, at least the Day is still early, and we’ve got more to work with than just handshaking nonsense. Right now, the things that I am looking at: The Idle Thoughts/Drain Bead exchange. Actually, this has the hallmarks of a town on town clash to my eye. But it’s something to reconsider if we learn more about one or the other. In #431, Rysto threw out a smudge against Oy!, but didn’t follow it up. The bandwagon onto Romanic. I think this is the most important review right now, since we know that Romanic flipped Town. Lots of words under the spoiler bar. [SPOILER]#460 Guiri made the reveal, but did not vote. #466 Ed switches from TL to Romanic, first vote. #469 Guiri votes 2 #471 Wanderers votes 3 #472 Drain Bead drops from Idle to vote 4. Comments that 4 seems like too few scum. #473-474 Normal sides with Romanic as town #475 Drain Bead promises to FOS Guiri if Romanic flips town. #480 Brewha votes 5 #486 NAF votes 6 #487 Maha votes 7 #491 TL abstains #492 Normal leans on Romanic to claim #496 lilflower votes 8 #497 Normal changes his mind, votes 9 #498 telcontar drops wanderers, votes 10 #500 Rysto votes 11 #507 Astral reviews Romanic, finds some scummy behavior in the editing discussion. Votes 12 #516 Suburban votes 13 #518 Oredigger talks about getting his vote out there, but doesn’t actually vote yet. Very waffly post. Waffley? Waffely? #519 NAF points FOS at Normal. #527 Oredigger votes 14 #529 Hal votes 15, with a bit of taunting added. #530 McGinty doesn’t think he’s scum, because he would have paid more attention if he were scum. Smears Normal. #531 Peeker votes 16 #534 McGinty reiterates that scum would never make such a scum mistake #536 Nanook votes 17 #538 Cookies votes 18, calls for a claim #541 TexCat doesn’t think Rom is scum. #547 Chipacabra drops Natlaw (Yes, it was just a prodding vote) and votes 19. I didn’t realize I got in so late; a lot happened while I was asleep. #548 Oy! votes 20, points out that maybe rom was making a defensive play. #552 Hurr hurr ass cum. Typo aside, Hal is being very flippant in this and 553. I’m willing to write this off as play style for now. #555 Romanic claims as the hitchhiker, without full details. #569 Idle drops Drain Bead, votes 21 Around this point, we get a discussion about whether or not Romanic should walk if he’s telling the truth. #612 USC refrains from voting after seeing the claim. #636 Omi abstains #650 ed says that if Rom walks, he will vote for Ore #680 Stanislaus votes 22 #696 USC votes 23 #707 Rom legs it. [/SPOILER] So, looks like Oredigger is under the lamp now. Rightly so; his comment that he left his vote in place because it didn’t matter is anti-town. Even if it’s obvious that someone is going to swing (or walk) but you believe he’s town, you PULL YOUR VOTE. If something had come up that either exonerated Rom or made someone else more suspicious and for whatever you’re not around to change your vote, it would be harder to save him. That being said, I get a little more of a ‘town playing wrong’ vibe than a scum vibe from Ore at the moment, but I’m going to keep an open mind there. Going back to my review of votes. Here’s the thing that stood out to me: Rysto wasn’t willing to vote for Oy! possible slip in 431, but was willing to vote for Rom for basically the same crime. Difference being that a bandwagon had started. Right now, that’s most suspicious to me, so: **vote Rysto** ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/776 "2010-10-06T22:45:40Z")
> [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/123): > > > [@NAF1138](#): > > > > Note the newbie clause. Also, I believe that Macey came back and said that she wasn’t actually fishing in a dead thread, but I could be misremembering. > > I suppose Macey was newer back them. He had played a bit on Facebook. (And I think that is the only game he played off of facebook) > > Here’s his actual quote that got him into trouble. It is oozing fishy smells. I think it is extra fishy because he was actively fishing for information from a Day 1 claimed Mason. > > (who had stupidly stated “got my role…looks cool” Which honestly, the roles did look cool, as long as they weren’t the already published Vanilla ones) > > > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/123): > > > > **pedescribe** , is there any more you can tell us about your role then? What does it say? Anything Alpha-Beta related? > > > > I’m asking because I feel that you’ve given up a little too easily. Why would the other masons agree to you claiming so early? Or did you decide this by yourself? > > > > Don’t tell us how many there are of you, I don’t think it’s wise giving that one away. I did misremember in that case. I don’t think that is really the same thing at all as what is typically described as fishing. He wasn’t trying to get someone to out himself as a power role, he was trying to get the claimed power role to give up useful info. That’s different. Still sort of dumb, but it’s a different flavor of a thing. OT: I don’t remember what my take on Macey was in that game. I am curious what I thought at the time (though clearly not curious enough to go look it up myself.) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/777 "2010-10-06T22:47:34Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Hey, it looks like I have a soapbox topic. > > Scum don’t need to fish. > > One more time. > > Scum don’t need to fish. > > Say it with me this time so you get the feel for it. > > Scum don’t need to fish. Need? No, I guess not. Is it helpful? Yes. Do they do it? Yes. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/778 "2010-10-06T23:00:25Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Need? No, I guess not. Is it helpful? Yes. Do they do it? Yes. > > :dubious: Do they do it? Yes, sometimes. But sometimes does not make for a quality tell. Is it helpful? To scum or to town? Scratch that, doesn’t matter. You are wrong. I detailed why you were wrong in my soapbox post. You are wrong. Beyond that, while I love talking about game mechanics and strategy, your :dubious: smiley tells me that you think this has some relevance to my own role in the game. It doesn’t. I have posted a variation on the same screed in my last several games as both town and scum. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/779 "2010-10-06T23:01:11Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > OT: I don’t remember what my take on Macey was in that game. I am curious what I thought at the time (though clearly not curious enough to go look it up myself.) I went back and scanned. I looked at a few of your posts after Macey’s fishing. And, you did end up casting a vote for Chucara for…fishing! And what’s even more ironic, is that Chucara’s fishing was asking for Alpha and Beta claims (There were 2 types of Vanilla in he game). And Chucara’s reasoning was that it would lock Scum into claiming one or the other and if the numbers were disproportional it might help us find Scum…kinda like NAF’s support for Total’s idea in this game. It’s slightly amusing to me, but certainly not anything that makes me look at NAF any differently that I did before finding all of that. The game was a long time ago. Individuals changes, as does the community as a whole. > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/141): > > Ok, so first things first. Sorry I haven’t been around much. Those of you who know me know that that will change as soon as I am able to make it change (within a day or two max), those of you who don’t…sorry. > > So my thoughts. > > 1. Hi macey. Welcome to the show. You are about as wrong as wrong can be wrt. Pede and how it should be handled and I find your subsequent posts backing out of your suspicion and throwing suspicion onto brewha and hawk to be…wrongheaded at best. Pede was clearly the lynch leader at this point and the Day is nearly over. Would you have rather lynched a mason than have one claim Day 1? No good my friend. > > You are also fishing for information on the Alpha/Beta idea. No good as well. > > 1. It was damn obvious to me that Pede was likely town. His slip wasn’t even a slip. That being said, I don’t think that there is anything scummy about Pleo pointing it out. I think pointing it out was a mistake, but everyone makes mistakes. > > 2. Thank you to Story for the response. I wanted to see the possibility of scum co-ordination on Day 1 vs. scum staying out of the fray. I am looking back on that right now. > > 3. It doesn’t look like we are going this way today, but I think that the Alpha/Beta role claim thing is interesting. I am not sure what the purpose of the mechanic is yet and I don’t want us making that sort of claim. I think it’s interesting to see the people who have been pushing for it though. > > Macey, Chucara, and Almost Human have all come out in favor of a claim of Alpha/Beta. Macey and Chucara pushing for it a little more than AH. I don’t know what that means, if it actually means anything at all yet. But it’s something to keep in mind. > > That being said, I might actually be in favor of a mass claim of some sort a little later on in the game, around Day 3 or 4, but not toDay and not Tomorrow. We need to gather more information before we can risk handing out information of our own. > > Back in a bit with a vote and a repost of a post I wrote in another game that will explain (a bit) where I am coming from these days. As of right now I don’t know who my vote will be on. Maybe macey, maybe someone else. I need to finish taking a good hard look at how the votes came out and then see who wasn’t voting. At first blush it looks like there are some fairly wonkey votes out there. I don’t get any of the JSexton votes or suspicion, for example. Same with the Thing Fish votes. So…back in a bit. > (Crap, that took me over an hour to put together. It might take me longer than I thought to get back with my vote post. But it will be today at some point. ) > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/145): > > This is a repost of a rather long theory post that I put together for the offboard game. I am rather proud of it, and I think it sums up how I am approaching mafia these days fairly well. So in the interest of transparency (and ego) I am reposting it. It also speaks to the “Scum would never do that” argument. Because…sometimes scum _won’t_ ever do that. I have made some minor changes to it to keep it timely and readable. But it is 99.9% the same post as in **Super Mario Brothers**. For new players to the group, everything I reference can be found (with at LEAST a link to the game) in the [wiki](http://wiki.flyingcowofdoom.com/mafiaWiki/Main_Page). Unlike the last game which was bogged down with information, I am actually willing do discuss some of the below in this game if anyone seriously wants to. I don’t know that you will though. But I figured since I hadn’t had much time to post yet toDay that this will give everyone a decent intro to my thought process, kind of the cliffnotes for NAF for those of you who haven’t played with me a lot. > > Disclaimer: The following was originally written in response to a direct question, which is why it reads like instructions. > > > [@](#): > > > > Ok, warning, long mafia theory post ahead. We can take the discussion out of the game if anyone really wants to have a serious talk with me about it, but after this post you will know where I am coming from and either agree with me or not. I am not really interested in arguing the merits of my theories in game though. Again, I am more than happy to talk about any of them out of the game thread. > > > > First, town has to be willing to punish wantonly anti-town play in the early game without fear that they might lynch town. Odds are you are going to lynch town on Day 1, and they aren’t much better on Day 2. You have to let the fear of early mis- lynches go and simply get people to start behaving as pro town as they can, this is so you eliminate a lot of confusing data. When people stop intentionally doing Anti-town shit, the stuff that pops up is easier to manage. It also provides a baseline for vote and behavior analysis. The first couple of lynches are more informational than anything anyway, and early scum lynches are _sometimes_ more of net neutral than anything. (More true of early vanilla scum lynches than other types) > > Second, you have to recognize that not every anti-town action is going to be pro- scum, and that every single player in the game will take anti-town actions at some point in time. The only player I have ever seen fail to ever take an anti-town position was **zuma** in YSI, and only in YSI. Right now I would say that roughly everything posted in the first 4 or so pages of the game has been anti-town. We are not ALL scum, and this is not an atypical start to a game. > > > > Third, you have to recognize that not all pro scum actions will be anti-town. This is where things start to get tricky, but as a general rule we have actually been fairly good at not keeping people alive simply because they are action pro-town. We did lynch Pollux in Marvel Comics Mafia, and that was good. We recognized that even though he played pro-town he was also playing pro-scum, and the pro-scumminess of it all became obvious as endgame came near. > > > > I firmly believe that Pollux’s death in the Marvel Comic game was a sterling example of what I have always said, if you keep scum talking long enough they will have to out themselves. It is not possible for scum to play 100% pro town and win. So promote pro-town behavior but recognize that after about Day 2 you are not looking for people who are acting in an anti town fashion, but rather people who are behaving in a pro-scum fashion. This is harder to see, but you can actually eliminate people from lynch contention as the game wears on because their behavior has been consistently anti-scum. Scum _can not_ play anti-scum in the long run. If they do they lose the game. > > > > This is one of the reasons why I think town should do it’s best to quash lurkers and to smack down fluff talkers early on. Fluff and quiet are a scum’s best friends. But if you force real analysis early and often from players the scum can not hide, because eventually they will have to fudge something in order not to hand the game to town, because scum can not play anti scum long term. The trick is to be able to separate anti-town but also anti-scum, from anti-town but pro-scum. Anti-town behavior gives scum a good place to hide. It is harder (but not impossible) to be pro-scum and pro-town. And it is my feeling that it is impossible to be pro-scum and pro-town long term and stay hidden.\* > > > > As for how you tell anti-town from pro-scum, well, there is no one magic bullet sure fire method, and some of it comes down to “I know it when I see it” for me. But at the very least, you always want to ask yourself “if I were scum, why would I do that?” Because, as those of us who have been scum frequently know, it is not possible to post anything as scum without thinking about how it will make you look. You can not post pure, and everything will have some sort of ulterior motive, even if that motive is only to look townie. > > > > So, from the above what I think we as players need is a system that changes with the progression of the game and actually analyzes both raw data as well as behavior. (Because one should not ignore the fact that raw data is also good at scum catching) Town should be working toward town confirmation as much as working toward scum catching. Sort of working from both sides and meeting in the middle. And then, lastly, town should not ever rely on one single action to create a lynch. Good unimpeachable data (from say, a cop) can be used, but never behavior. It is too hard to sort the wheat from the chaff on the basis of a single action. But when you have multiple pro-scum actions, as well as supporting raw data then you have a good lynch. > > > > - so if multiple someones start telling you that your behavior is anti-town, for god sakes knock off that behavior or it WILL be in the towns best interest to lynch you, regardless of your alignment. Sometimes it’s good to lynch town for information, and sometimes it’s good to lynch possible town to keep the record readable. Not a popular sentiment, but a true one. > > Ok, so back in a little bit more with a vote. Really, I mean it. > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/150): > > > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/149): > > > > Kinda weird for me to agree with NAF this much. =P > > Yes…it IS kinda weird. :dubious: > > I want to see where the macey train is rolling. So I don’t think I will vote for him right now. Instead: > \*\* > vote Chucara\*\* > > for fishing also, but being more subtle about it. > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/168): > > > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/165): > > > > It is a new feature post conversion. > > > > Naf, can you explain why you are voting Chucara over Macey. Subtly is more suspicious than bluntness? > > More or less. The one thing that gives me pause is how blatent Macey was. It was a coin toss, but Macey’s bluntness put Chucara over the top for me. > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/215): > > > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/203): > > > > NAF, would you hook a brother up and go into more detail on where Chuc’s been fishing? I don’t see it. > > It’s about the Alpha/Beta thing. He is one of the few people that was pushing for Alpha/Beta reveals. I don’t know what they have to do with the game as of now, but I know that they wouldn’t be in the game if they didn’t mean _something._ (Something could be story throwing us a red herring, but that is still something.) > > He isn’t the only person to do that, but there is a certain undefinable quality to his posts as well that I am not liking. It’s just a little more fast and loose than he was when he was such a good townie in Marvel, and I know that is metagaming but sue me. > > As I have said before I can’t unknow what I know about players, but I am not hanging my argument on that either. It’s just one more factor that makes him more suspicious in my eyes than others. It was close to a coin toss as to who I was going to vote for, Chucara just edged out the other candidates. Macey was the closest 2nd place but as time is going on I am less ok with that lynch. It’s reminding me of Buff’s lynch in the current offboard game. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493/780 "2010-10-06T23:05:16Z")
Let me follow that up with a question for you Maha, how do you think you should go about finding scum? When you are a power role, how do you think you should go about determining who you should target with your power? Town and scum fish far more often than scum, because scum don’t need to fish. They already have the information. Numbers vs information. We have numbers, they have information. Why do they need to fish for power roles? Particularly when I promise you that almost all power roles broadcast their status as such if you know who the scum are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evil-dead-mafia-ii-teaser-and-sign-ups-game-on/555493.md?page=40)