# Evolution and science... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2005, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979 "2005-02-26T05:18:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/201 "2005-03-03T08:50:17Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > I still haven’t heard one thing that can account for (abiogenesis) yet. The evidence is perhaps not as strong as that for evolution, but complex amino acids do form [in space](http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/7/8/7) and are transferred to Earth via meteor or [comet](http://www.panspermia.org/comets.htm) collisions, as in [Kerala’s ‘red rain’ in 2001](http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0310120) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/202 "2005-03-03T12:47:19Z")
To **Andros** and **Nolies** , relative to the formal debate: It might be a good idea that there be a “side” thread running alongside your formal debate thread, in which people might comment on the points made. Of course, given the overwhelming majority in favor of the evolutionary view, this might be seen as giving an unfair advantage to **andros** in terms of “his own coaching staff.” But it would relieve the problem of people feeling anxious to interject their opinions into a thread you’ve set aside for the one-on-one debate. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/203 "2005-03-03T12:50:06Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > The evidence is perhaps not as strong as that for evolution… You should go into politics, **SM**! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/204 "2005-03-03T15:33:19Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > To **Andros** and **Nolies** , relative to the formal debate: It might be a good idea that there be a “side” thread running alongside your formal debate thread, in which people might comment on the points made. Of course, given the overwhelming majority in favor of the evolutionary view, this might be seen as giving an unfair advantage to **andros** in terms of “his own coaching staff.” But it would relieve the problem of people feeling anxious to interject their opinions into a thread you’ve set aside for the one-on-one debate. An excellent suggestion, **Poly**. What do you think, **Nolies**? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/205 "2005-03-03T20:07:42Z")
I think the guy booked. Now if only he’d read one (besides the “word of god” one). ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/206 "2005-03-03T21:44:15Z")
> [@I Love Me](#): > > I think the guy booked. Oh, I hope not. I’m looking forward to attempting to meet his challenge, and would expect to learn a lot from it. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/207 "2005-03-03T22:00:09Z")
> [@Twoflower](#): > > Your counterpart would expect his/her questions to actually be answered; your track record of doing so in this thread is not good. It’s not good in other threads either. I’m still waiting for a response to the last question I asked [n]Nolies\*\* in the Noah thread. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/208 "2005-03-03T22:05:24Z")
> [@I Love Me](#): > > I think the guy booked. In this context, the correct term would be “selected out”. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/209 "2005-03-04T15:15:00Z")
**Nolies** , we didn’t lose you, did we? ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/210 "2005-03-04T17:08:35Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > I think you’ve left out a few options there. > > [Marduk did it](http://campus.northpark.edu/history/Classes/Sources/BabylonianCreation.PS.html)(Babylonian creation myth) > [Obatala did it](http://www.tribalarts.com/feature/lawal/)(African creation myth) > [White Body, Blue Body, Black Body, and Yellow Body did it](http://www.earthbow.com/native/navajo/firstman.htm)(Navajo Creation myth) > [Odin, Vili, and Ve did it](http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/Europe/norse_creation_myth.htm)(Norse Creation myth) > [Veda did it](http://www.people.memphis.edu/~kenichls/1301HinduCreationCaste.html)(Indian(Hindu) creation myth) > [Tu-chai-pai did it](http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/ariel.htm#COMANCHE)(Comanche creation myth) > [Ziene did it](http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/chinaflood.html)(Chinese(Miao) creation myth) > > A large selection of gods and “how they did it” [can be found here](http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html). I don’t have a problem with you debunking evolution(although you’re not doing a very good job at the moment) but your blithe assertion that the other alternative is a simple and easy explanation certainly seems to ignore the questions of “which god” and “how”. > > Enjoy, > Steven [Xenu did it!](http://www.scientology.org/) ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/211 "2005-03-04T17:15:58Z")
Just curious, in the entire history of SDMB, as a creationist \*ever \*admitted that they lost the argument? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/212 "2005-03-04T17:21:28Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > [Xenu did it!](http://www.scientology.org/) [Xena did it!](http://www.xenite.org/xor/Xena/more2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/213 "2005-03-04T17:42:24Z")
> [@Twoflower](#): > > Just curious, in the entire history of SDMB, as a creationist \*ever \*admitted that they lost the argument? The point isn’t to make them admit they’re wrong; with Og on their side, how can they lose? The purpose is just to make them look very foolish, _pour encourager tres outres_. Since they typically give you a lot of help in this regard it isn’t a difficult task. But boy, they love it when some dying scientist gets a fear of mortality into him and decides to bet on Pascal’s Wager. “See, Dr. X says God is real! So, it must be true!” :rolleyes: Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/214 "2005-03-04T17:59:38Z")
Oh, I know the point isn’t to get an actual change of opinion. I’m just curious whether one of these discussions has ever ended in any other way than the creationist just disappearing. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/215 "2005-03-04T17:59:54Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > A large selection of gods and “how they did it” [can be found here](http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html). It seems to bea great and very interesting link. I’ve been searching for something like that in the past. Thanks a lot… ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/216 "2005-03-04T20:42:18Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > But boy, they love it when some dying scientist gets a fear of mortality into him and decides to bet on Pascal’s Wager. “See, Dr. X says God is real! So, it must be true!” :rolleyes: A couple points: First, many scientists are already Christians. Second, being Christian does not mean a person does not believe in evolution. Third, do you (or the creationists) have any _verifiable_ citations of a scientist becoming a creationist on his deathbed? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/217 "2005-03-04T20:53:19Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m just curious whether one of these discussions has ever ended in any other way than the creationist just disappearing. No, the evangelical Crationists, (not to be confused with Evangelical Christians, since the two sets are not unions), tend to flash through here and burn out. On the other hand, several Dopers have mentioned, over the years, that they arrived here with Creationist beliefs and, between the information and logic presented regarding the Theory of Natural Selection, changed their views to recognize the validity of evolution. Serious people who are willing to spend the time and energy to inspect the arguments can be persuaded–which is why we expend the time and energy to contest the silliness that blows in here in the manner of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/218 "2005-03-04T21:07:02Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > A couple points: First, many scientists are already Christians. Second, being Christian does not mean a person does not believe in evolution. Third, do you (or the creationists) have any _verifiable_ citations of a scientist becoming a creationist on his deathbed? Ooft. Let me amend that to “recants evolution/theory of natural selection”. I don’t mean to alienate Christians who accept evolution, even if I don’t agree with their religious beliefs. As for citations, I don’t know that there are any valid ones, but the claims are often made. For me, I don’t care to argue the point as it is an irrelevency, just as are **nolies** earlier claims of evolution being only as good as the reputation of the espouser. The observation of evolution and theory of natural selection stand upon their own, regardless of who holds them and how their opinion may change over time. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/219 "2005-03-05T22:48:12Z")
Not to be pushy, **Nolies** , but if you feel you won’t get a fair shake in our debate, I’m happy to throw the offer open to that friend you mentioned or to anyone else you might choose to delegate. Just thought I’d suggest that in hopes you might return. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979/220 "2005-03-06T01:28:14Z")
I don’t think he’s coming back. I think he just accidentally stumbled on the “drunken Noah” Staff Report, came into Comments to tell us, “Oh you silly people–use the Bible to study the Bible”, and now he’s gone back to his Real Life somewhere. We’re just a momentary diversion to him. Boo hoo. I’m so hurt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-science/291979.md?page=12)