# Evolution and the American South? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 4, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359 "2017-03-04T03:10:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/41 "2017-03-06T23:05:19Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Ever read the Cornerstone Speech by Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens? > > He had read Darwin’s “Origin of Species” as was quite prepared to use it as evidence that blacks were descended from an inferior strain of primates. [Full text of the speech](http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/) is here. No actual mention of Darwin or evolution. The closest it comes is here: > [@](#): > > Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Given that there were far more direct proponents of [scientific racism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism) already in this period, it seems to me more likely then not that he is _not_ referring to Darwin. ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/42 "2017-03-06T23:06:53Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Oh, no… the Dallas area is smack-dab in the Bible Belt. People freaking ask you where you go to church, get up in your shit about religious belief, and just make all sorts of assumptions about religion and what-not here. I mean, the Southern Baptist Convention is headquartered here, and has their annual convention here! Doesn’t get any more crazy than that. > > Wasn’t and isn’t that way in Houston at all. I’d draw that Bible Belt diagram as going just north of the Houston area, but not including it. Dallas, on the other hand might be less Baptist/evangelical than the surrounding benighted boondocks, but only very slightly so. > **[Religious Landscape Study](https://www.pewresearch.org/religious-landscape-study/database/metro-area/dallasfort-worth-metro-area/)** > > Explore the geographic distribution and demographics of America's major religious groups. Here are the statistics. In the Dallas metro area, only 40% believe in creationism and 56% accept evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/43 "2017-03-07T00:11:17Z")
Oh good, you’re back. Again: what on earth possessed you to ask such a ridiculous question? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/44 "2017-03-07T01:42:53Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Data here, the second bar chart, acceptance of evolution by state: > > [Acceptance of evolution vs. religiosity in the U.S. – Why Evolution Is True](https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/04/07/acceptance-of-evolution-vs-religiosity-in-the-u-s/) > > It runs from around 30% to around 65% by state, obviously negatively correlated with no so much just “South” but Bible Belt. Im not surprised that Utah was the third from the bottom. My high school biology teacher didn’t believe in evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/45 "2017-03-07T02:06:41Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > [Adults in the Dallas metro area - Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/metro-area/dallasfort-worth-metro-area/#social-and-political-views) > > Here are the statistics. In the Dallas metro area, only 40% believe in creationism and 56% accept evolution. You’re providing cites to refute your own OP? This isn’t a first for the Dope, but it’s always a wonderful gift to those of us who have terrible opinions of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/46 "2017-03-07T15:17:56Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Actually Dallas is a cosmopolitan city, and it isn’t quite like the rest of Texas. It’s quite diverse and Democrats and not Republicans dominate the politics of Dallas. And somebody did cite an excellent reference called the Religious Landscape Study from the Pew Research Forum, and it did provide statistics for the Dallas metro area and the statistics were quite surprising. Most folks in the Dallas area actually accept evolution. And I’ll cite the statistics momentarily. Dallas proper, sure. But it’s only maybe 20% of the Metroplex as a whole. And once you get outside of Dallas itself, the diversity, Democratic party affiliation, and religious reasonableness go WAY down fast. Collin County is a festering swamp of mindless reactionary political conservatism, religious right nuttery and white-bread intolerance, for example. At any rate, the point I was making was more that Houston is NOT like Dallas, and that Dallas is pretty much square in the Bible Belt. 40% believe in creationism? That is a pretty poor argument that Dallas is somehow religiously progressive and diverse. It tells me that I’m right, and that nearly half of the people here are of the creationist, lunatic right-wing Baptist/Evangelical stripe. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/47 "2017-03-07T15:59:01Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Data here, the second bar chart, acceptance of evolution by state: > > [Acceptance of evolution vs. religiosity in the U.S. – Why Evolution Is True](https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/04/07/acceptance-of-evolution-vs-religiosity-in-the-u-s/) > > It runs from around 30% to around 65% by state, obviously negatively correlated with no so much just “South” but Bible Belt. EEK! According to those stats, my state, Tennessee, is near the bottom as far as acceptance of evolution is concerned. Yup, that’s the “Bible Belt” for you… ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/48 "2017-03-07T17:01:23Z")
It’s easy to pigeonhole a region into a certain mindset. I always imagine Chicago as gangsters with machine guns, shooting holes in everything. All Texans wear cowboy hats and use Colt 45s and shoot holes in everything. All Floridians are displaced Yankees, because Florida broke off from New York, swam down, and attached itself to the bottom of Georgia. And they all own 22s and shoot holes in everything. But remember, Fred Phelps came from Kansas, not the South. Thus, Midwesterners have absorbed the stereotype that long defined Southerners, and we can sweep our fringe hate groups under the rug without anybody noticing. But sometimes they creep back out, like the KKK troupe that marched in a parade in a small remote town in NC after Trump won (a NON southerner), and our beloved stereotype returns to smother us. The KKK has also marched in upstate New York and even in California, proving racial hatred is not unique to the South, but they haven’t done it enough! Anyhoo, evolution is really more of a rural vs urban issue, and the South has plenty of big cities. Rural folks are more likely to have had a strong church influence, as there’s not much else to do besides go to church for social functions. Not ALL of them are that way of course, but the ones who opt to stay in the rural areas don’t want to alienate their more religious neighbors, so evolution is less likely to be discussed out in the open. ---
**Author:** ![Waxwinged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@Waxwinged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waxwinged)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/49 "2017-03-07T17:30:43Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Does anybody in the American South accept evolution? You know Darwin’s theory of evolution. (This is a joke post, right?) Yes, plenty of people in the American South accept evolution. Some of them are even college-educated professionals! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/50 "2017-03-07T18:01:01Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > [Full text of the speech](http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/) is here. No actual mention of Darwin or evolution. The closest it comes is here: > > Given that there were far more direct proponents of [scientific racism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism) already in this period, it seems to me more likely then not that he is _not_ referring to Darwin. I will acknowledge this: Darwin was strongly opposed to slavery, and was horrified that people tried to use his theories to put a scientific gloss over an evil institution. But the fact remains, many racists in the South were HAPPY to embrace Darwinism, or their own interpretation of Darwin, to justify racism and slavery. Remember, many of the biggest slave owners in the South were educated men, men of the Enlightenment. These guys were not religious fundamentalists. Indeed, many weren’t religious at all. Many would have had no religious objections to Evolution. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/51 "2017-03-07T21:41:06Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Actually Dallas is a cosmopolitan city, and it isn’t quite like the rest of Texas. It’s quite diverse and Democrats and not Republicans dominate the politics of Dallas. And somebody did cite an excellent reference called the Religious Landscape Study from the Pew Research Forum, and it did provide statistics for the Dallas metro area and the statistics were quite surprising. Most folks in the Dallas area actually accept evolution. And I’ll cite the statistics momentarily. And I’m betting that the acceptance of evolution in Austin is even higher! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/52 "2017-03-08T06:26:05Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > But the fact remains, many racists in the South were HAPPY to embrace Darwinism, or their own interpretation of Darwin, to justify racism and slavery. The [first African slaves arrived in the South in 1619](http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Virginia_s_First_Africans). _On the Origin of Species_ was first published in 1859. For the 240 year period in between, slave owners managed to come up with justifications for slavery and white supremacy without reference to Charles Darwin. Do you have any actual examples of Southern slave owners referring to Darwin or evolution as justifications for their “peculiar institution”? (Of course it’s easy to find examples of Southern slave owners justifying slavery as being “[the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations](http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_texsec.asp)” and as a “[providential trust](http://civilwarcauses.org/palmer.htm)” given to the Southern people by God.) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/53 "2017-03-08T12:21:47Z")
There wasn’t even much time for slave owners to use Darwin as a justification for slavery in the U.S., since _On the Origin of Species_ was published just before the Civil War. There have been many cases of people using what they claimed were scientific reasons to justify racism. This Wikipedia article gives many of those cases: > **[Scientific racism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism)** > > Scientific racism, sometimes termed biological racism, is the pseudoscientific belief that empirical evidence exists to support or justify racism (racial discrimination), racial inferiority, or racial superiority. Before the mid-20th century, scientific racism received credence throughout the scientific community, but it is no longer considered scientific. The division of humankind into biologically distinct groups, and the attribution of specific traits both physical and mental Scientific rac... ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/54 "2017-03-08T14:25:49Z")
**Weisshund** , you are being given a warning for “being a jerk”. Your post is insulting and over the top vitriolic for this forum. You can express your opinion at the OP’s question without crossing the line for this forum. > [@Weisshund](#): > > Is this some kind of stupid trick question? > > The year is 2017, America is a highly mobile society > Most households own at least 1 automobile if not more > The nation is now traversed by numerous local and national highways > > People go live where they want to, or where work etc takes them. > Many of your “American South” were probably from New York, or New Jersey, or Michigan, or Montana, or where ever. > > Oh and yes, people from the south have even gone to and lived in Alaska > > So, there is no “Good Old” 1830 south with slaves and plantations and what ever else BS you have dancing in your idiotic mind. > > So exactly what kind of stereotypical Good Old Boys, inbred, sister humping, what ever fantasy did you smoke up today huh? ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/55 "2017-03-08T19:12:38Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > **Weisshund** , you are being given a warning for “being a jerk”. Your post is insulting and over the top vitriolic for this forum. You can express your opinion at the OP’s question without crossing the line for this forum. Thank you for letting me know, and I must confess that I placed this thread in the wrong category. I should of put it in General Questions.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/56 "2017-03-08T21:08:24Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Thank you for letting me know, and I must confess that I placed this thread in the wrong category. I should of put it in General Questions.🙂 Will your next question be, “Does anyone on earth like pineapple on pizza?” Or what about, “Are there phone numbers that have a six as the third digit?” Maybe, “Do any black people live in Vermont?” I’m seriously wondering whether you meant to type the question you typed. ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/57 "2017-03-08T22:05:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Will your next question be, “Does anyone on earth like pineapple on pizza?” > > Or what about, “Are there phone numbers that have a six as the third digit?” > > Maybe, “Do any black people live in Vermont?” > > I’m seriously wondering whether you meant to type the question you typed. No I would never ask any of those kind of questions. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/58 "2017-03-09T13:42:32Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > No I would never ask any of those kind of questions. Perhaps what I should have asked is, “What possessed you to ask such a question?” That said, if you don’t answer this time, I’ll figure you must not know. Being Southern, I’ll chalk it up to SATAN. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/59 "2017-03-09T14:15:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Maybe, “Do any black people live in Vermont?” I would guess “no”, considering how few I saw when I recently lived in the northern suburbs of Boston for a year, and spent plenty of time in New Hampshire… ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359/60 "2017-03-09T15:59:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Perhaps what I should have asked is, “What possessed you to ask such a question?” > > That said, if you don’t answer this time, I’ll figure you must not know. Being Southern, I’ll chalk it up to SATAN. > > 😉 I was just curious. Relax. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-and-the-american-south/781359.md?page=4)