# Evolution of strawberries and peanuts **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 15, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306 "2004-07-15T19:08:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/21 "2004-07-16T15:55:16Z")
And watermelons are berries, not melons. It all depends on your definition of “expert.” Tris ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/22 "2004-07-16T16:01:35Z")
Watermelons are indeed melons. They are members of the family Cucurbitaceae, which includes cucumbers, squashes, gourds, and melons. The characteristic fruit of the family is a berry with a hard outer shell, also known as a pepo. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/23 "2004-07-16T16:16:07Z")
> [@brane damaj](#): > > Au contraire. You obviously did not understand my post–or I do not understand what I have read about cashews. The (non-botanical) fruit of the cashew tree, commonly called the “cashew apple,” is not a fruit under botanical definitions. Only the seed and its coverings are the botanical “fruit.” So the nut does not grow outside the fruit, rather the nut and its shell and junk _are_ the fruit. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/24 "2004-07-16T16:20:04Z")
Hmmm, it occurs to me that you mean “melon” in the more specific sense of fruit of members of the genus _Cucumis_. The genus includes _Cucumis melo_ the eponymous melon well as _C. sativus_ the cucumber. In that sense, cucumbers are melons. Watermelon is _Citrullus lanatus_, which makes it not a melon, but then so are many other species in the same family that also have “melon” in their common name. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/25 "2004-07-16T16:32:26Z")
**Earl Snake-Hips Tucker** ’s post snuck in there while I was composing the follow-up of my reply to **Triskadecamus**. You’ve got it right. The true botanical fruit of the cashew is what’s commonly called the cashew nut. This is stuck to the end of a large fleshy structure commonly regarded as the fruit. This actually develops out of the peduncle (i.e., floral stalk). The entire assemblage of ‘fruit’ and ‘nut’ is botanically classified as an accessory fruit. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Agent\_Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Cooper)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/26 "2004-07-16T17:31:41Z")
Reading this thread, I began to wonder if there is actually any such thing as a vegetable. What I once thought were veggies have all been redefined as fruits here. So I did a quick Google for a definition and find _even more_ contradictions. First: "edible seeds or roots or stems or leaves or bulbs or tubers or nonsweet fruits of any of numerous herbaceous plant " Then: "The edible part of a plant. Does not usually include the fruit. " The first is from a university, the second is from some random cooking website. It just illustrates that the answer to this question is : “depends who you ask.” So how does it work? Some fruits are veggies, but no veggies are fruits? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/27 "2004-07-16T18:19:44Z")
Well, to a botanist, I think “vegetable” (and maybe even “nut”) does not really fit in to their terminology. To a botanist, it’s a fruit, a leaf, a seed, a root, etc. To a cook, it’s a fruit, a nut, a vegetable, etc–and the divisions can be murky, indeed. Like the aforementioned watermelons (and other melons as well). Their members of the gourd family, which includes squashes, pumpkins, and cucumbers. To most cooks, they would be considered vegetables. But you see chopped up melons in fruit salad, so they (to a cook) are fruits. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/28 "2004-07-16T20:09:04Z")
To a botanist, if “vegetable” means anything, it’s synonymous with “plant”. More strictly, a vegetable is any edible plant, or the edible part of the plant, or a non-sweet edible part of a plant. To a botanist, a fruit is the developed ovary of a flowering plant, which contains the seeds. Many vegetables are fruits, by this definition. A pepper, a tomato, the edible part of an eggplant, a cucumber, and a green bean are all vegetables which are fruits. Some vegetables, however, are not fruits: Lettuce and spinach are leaves, carrots and radishes are roots, broccoli is flowers, etc. Really, I’ve never understood the confusion behind the question “is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable?”. It’s a non-sweet edible seed-containing developed ovary. Therefore it is a vegetable which happens to be a fruit. But nobody ever asks “Is a carrot a vegetable or a root?”, or “Is spinach a vegetable or a leaf?”. Why is it that people can accept that vegetable and root are not mutually exclusive, but they can’t accept that vegetable and fruit are not mutually exclusive? To sum up: There are vegetables which are fruits, such as the tomato. There are vegetables which are not fruits, such as the carrot. There are fruits which are not vegetables, such as maple helicopters (a seed-bearing ovary, but not (to my knowledge) edible). And, of course, there are things which are neither fruit nor vegetable, like maple leaves, rose flowers, and Rubic’s cubes. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/29 "2004-07-16T20:31:15Z")
Yah, why only tomatoes? What about peppers, cucumbers, pumpkins, coconuts, and avocados? If I took lettuce, celery, green onions, and mandarin oranges, mixed them up and poured salad dressing over it, to make a delicious mandarin orange salad, does that make the oranges somehow magically mutate from fruits into vegetables? ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/30 "2004-07-21T07:48:18Z")
To bring it back to strawberries, one thing to note is that the fruit is called an “achene”, which is an indehiscent (doesn’t open upon ripening) dry fruit with the seed attached to one side of the ovarian wall. Cashew “nuts” are the same, they are achenes. Both the achenes on the strawberry and the cashew are attached to parts not directly involved in reproduction in the case of strawberries, the receptacle, which holds the ovaries, and the cashew, the peduncle, or stem of the flower. Another similar “fruit” are from the Raisin Tree - Hovenia dulcis. The “fruits” form from the peduncles, that begin to swell and become edible as the true fruit, the seed pod matures. The peduncles have a sweet pear like taste. The seed pod isn’t used, but the peduncle is. In China, where this tree is native, the peduncle is made into a beverage called “tree honey” which is said to neutralize hangovers. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/31 "2004-07-21T11:47:09Z")
This seems like a good place to ask, Is an avacado a fruit ot a veggie? ---
**Author:** ![quiltguy154](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ad7895/32.png) [@quiltguy154](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quiltguy154)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/32 "2004-07-21T12:37:25Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > This seems like a good place to ask, Is an avacado a fruit ot a veggie? It’s a fruit. My take on the whole subject is: if the part you eat contains seeds, or did at one point, then it’s a fruit. Mycologists[fungi know-it-alls], call the aboveground part of mushrooms “fruiting bodies.” I look at fruits/veggies that way. Seed=fruit, everything else is a veggie. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/33 "2004-07-21T12:47:09Z")
See my 12 yr old told me that and I countered with …pumpkin. Please tell me I am right and pumpkin is a veggie. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/34 "2004-07-21T15:00:43Z")
Avocado = fruit Pumpkin = fruit Tomato = fruit Cucumber = fruit Squash = fruit Bell pepper = fruit ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/35 "2004-07-21T15:10:41Z")
> [@Terminus Est](#): > > Avocado = fruit > Pumpkin = fruit > Tomato = fruit > Cucumber = fruit > Squash = fruit > Bell pepper = fruit Bugger! I so hate it when he is right. I’m supposed to teach him things! ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/36 "2004-07-21T15:27:44Z")
**quiltguy154** ’s “seed test” is a good way to determine whether some random plant part is a fruit. For a more in-depth explanation - read the rest of the thread! ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306/37 "2004-07-22T01:37:33Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Bugger! I so hate it when he is right. I’m supposed to teach him things! Those are also all vegetables–if you’re looking at them from the point of view of a cook. Scientifically, as noted, they’re all fruits. Also, note earlier in the thread that it’s a pointless exercise to ask “Is [some plant] a fruit or a vegetable?” Often it’s both, again, depending upon your point of reference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-strawberries-and-peanuts/255306.md?page=1)