# Evolution of the Soul **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192 "2003-10-29T07:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/21 "2003-11-04T09:12:09Z")
**lekatt** when I read your first post I was elated to see somebody of like mind on the SDMB. We seem to agree on quite a bit. I also don’t understand your last post though. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/22 "2003-11-04T11:43:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dwalin \* > \*\*What on earth does that mean? How is driving a car being fearful for survival? I cannot even understand Sentence 2, 3, or 4. \*\* Well, that’s what happens when you argue with **lekatt**. Sometimes I wonder what it’s like to be so certain of something so wrong. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/23 "2003-11-04T12:25:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \* > \*\ ***lekatt** when I read your first post I was elated to see somebody of like mind on the SDMB. We seem to agree on quite a bit. > > I also don’t understand your last post though. \*\* I see from the posts that I shouldn’t have tried to answer the question. So we can just forget it. Sorry about that. Love ---
**Author:** ![Headcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@Headcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/24 "2003-11-05T07:30:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*I learned what I wrote from my near death experience. > \*\* Overactive ?[DMT](http://skepdic.com/nde.html) ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/25 "2003-11-05T13:27:36Z")
IMHO: > [@](#): > > Do you believe that all self-replicating entities have souls (virus, prions, bacteria, etc.)? Yes, but viruses have evil souls. And thats not to say that non-self-replicating entities don’t have souls. > [@](#): > > Do you believe that the soul is discrete? Yes and no. It must be subject to cause and effect if it is to undergo any sort of change. And anything that is subject to cause and effect is not really discrete. > [@](#): > > If we start tinkering with the human genome, will we reach a point where we have changed so many genes that the result is no longer human, and/or no longer has a soul? No. I believe where there is life there is a soul, like BladeRunner. > [@](#): > > Could we genetically engineer a soul into other animals? See above. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/26 "2003-11-05T18:10:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Headcoat \* > \*\*Overactive ?[DMT](http://skepdic.com/nde.html) \*\* lacking knowledge? [http://ndeweb.com/FAQz02.htm](http://ndeweb.com/FAQz02.htm) ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/27 "2003-11-05T22:09:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Headcoat \* > \*\*Overactive ?[DMT](http://skepdic.com/nde.html) \*\* Although I have never had an NDE, I have had OBEs (spontaneous astral projection). At night, in my sleep - I’ll actually wake up projected. There was no illness or other stress on my body. No drug, legal or otherwise, was present in my system. These have happened maybe once every year or two since I was about 12 or 13 years old. Your cite even admits on a [related page](http://skepdic.com/obe.html) that pathology or not, OBEs might nonetheless actually be real events. Since I have experienced them myself, I strongly believe they are. ---
**Author:** ![Headcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@Headcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/28 "2003-11-06T05:38:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \* > \*\*Although I have never had an NDE, I have had OBEs (spontaneous astral projection). At night, in my sleep - I’ll actually wake up projected. There was no illness or other stress on my body. No drug, legal or otherwise, was present in my system. These have happened maybe once every year or two since I was about 12 or 13 years old. > > Your cite even admits on a [related page](http://skepdic.com/obe.html) that pathology or not, OBEs might nonetheless actually be real events. > > Since I have experienced them myself, I strongly believe they are. \*\* I wasn’t implying that he was using drugs, but that certain naturally occuring chemicals, most significantly DMT, are at their highest concentrations during a person’s birth and death. A self induced DMT high correlates well with a naturally released DMT high as experienced in NDE’s. ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/29 "2003-11-06T10:51:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I wasn’t implying that he was using drugs, but that certain naturally occuring chemicals, most significantly DMT, are at their highest concentrations during a person’s birth and death. A self induced DMT high correlates well with a naturally released DMT high as experienced in NDE’s. Perhaps thats a result of the soul entering/leaving the body rather than the cause of any perception that the soul is leaving the body. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/30 "2003-11-06T10:57:11Z")
So, the real question is; if plankton have souls, is there a plankton heaven? And what do you have to do to end up in plankton _hell_? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/31 "2003-11-06T13:38:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \* > \*\*Although I have never had an NDE, I have had OBEs (spontaneous astral projection). At night, in my sleep - I’ll actually wake up projected. There was no illness or other stress on my body. No drug, legal or otherwise, was present in my system. These have happened maybe once every year or two since I was about 12 or 13 years old. \*\* [SDStaff Doug, who has first-hand experience of the phenomenon, explains](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mastral.html). > [@](#): > > **Your cite even admits on a [related page](http://skepdic.com/obe.html) that pathology or not, OBEs might nonetheless actually be real events.** Of course they are. They just probably aren’t what they seem to be to the experiencer. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/32 "2003-11-06T13:47:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \* > \*\*Although I have never had an NDE, I have had OBEs (spontaneous astral projection). At night, in my sleep - I’ll actually wake up projected. There was no illness or other stress on my body. No drug, legal or otherwise, was present in my system. These have happened maybe once every year or two since I was about 12 or 13 years old. \*\* [SDStaff Doug, who has first-hand experience of the phenomenon, explains](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mastral.html). > [@](#): > > **Your cite even admits on a [related page](http://skepdic.com/obe.html) that pathology or not, OBEs might nonetheless actually be real events.** Of course they are. They just probably aren’t what they seem to be to the experiencer. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/33 "2003-11-06T22:09:57Z")
Okay, **Priceguy** , look at it this way. You have a theory that is plausible, given what is known about physiology, and I have a theory that is plausible if we acknowledge that science has yet to discover everything that exists. Neither of us can prove that the other is wrong. Your theory (actually SDStaff Doug’s theory) explains the sensation and perception of astral projection, whereas my theory explains why we have consciousness, where it comes from, and what happens to it when the body dies. Maybe, someday, thousands of years from now, somebody will find definitive proof that explains everything, and we could both be right (or both wrong). Until then, it’s a matter that falls into the category of faith and religious beliefs. It’s actually pretty rude of me :smack: to perpetuate this hijack and not even answer the OP, but I just don’t know. Maybe everything has a soul, including bacteria and viruses. Certainly all animals do, and I would think all plants do too. As for discrete, I suspect all souls are one at the highest level (that is what I call god) but we have this perception of individuality on the mundane everyday level. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/34 "2003-11-06T22:27:27Z")
I’ll repeat thoughts on the “soul” that I have stated in other threads here: IMO, the primitive idea of the soul originates from observation of the living vs. observation of the dead. The dead certainly seem to have something missing, which gives rise to the notion that some entity separate from the physical body departs upon death. However, this viewpoint originated in the distant past, before we developed self-propelled technology. I think he body can now be understood to be a sophisticated machine, like a motorized vehicle, that goes until it is no longer able to make use of the resources that cause it to run. There is no separate soul that leaves us when we die anymore than there is a soul that leaves our car when we turn it off (as much as many of us like to personify our autos). I think that our consciousness (“soul”, “spirit”, etc.) arises from the same physical processes that enable us to move and sense the world around us, and that all living creatures possess consciousness to some degree. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/35 "2003-11-13T01:52:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*I learned what I wrote from my near death experience. > > I would like to add, all pain and suffering in this world is caused by us humans fearful for our survival. But our survival is guaranteed. > > Love \*\* “It is appointed unto man, once to die but after this the judgement.” Heb. 9:27 There are some of those who may well wish they had not survived. ---
**Author:** ![prisoner6655321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f8ce5/32.png) [@prisoner6655321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/prisoner6655321)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192/36 "2003-11-13T03:12:59Z")
I do believe that most Christians who believe that evolution is true say that humans didn’t evolve. We were created by God. We have been evolving since we were created, but our first presence on the Earth was so late that the difference between Adam and us isn’t very different. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-of-the-soul/210192.md?page=1)