# Evolution: why are there still monkeys, apes, chimps, etc.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069 "2009-12-05T04:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/21 "2009-12-05T08:52:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If lions exist, why are there still tigers? Because they don’t eat chickens. snert ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/22 "2009-12-05T09:27:15Z")
:rolleyes: Only a fool would leave the snert. It’s the best part of the chicken after the oysters! [😃](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_%28fowl%29) CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/23 "2009-12-05T10:06:46Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Our ancestor (who was not a monkey) no longer exists. We have a great many ancestors that were monkeys. I would guess that humans have at least a dozen monkey ancestors. It’s perfectly correct to say that humans evolved from monkeys. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/24 "2009-12-05T11:56:28Z")
Wow, this is deep. I think it may cause the whole evolutionist crowd to re-think their beliefs. I’m not sure if they have a thesis for this. Cause if they did, it’d probably be one of the first things explained in any description of evolution. It’d be the kind of thing that anyone with any rudimentary knowledge of logic or biology would know. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/25 "2009-12-05T14:28:46Z")
Dan, there are many unanswered questions about this that do not have an adequate explanation in current science. Any researcher who finds out how species can pass on different characteristics to their offspring based on selective pressure will surely win a Nobel Prize. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/26 "2009-12-05T14:35:26Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Wow, this is deep. I think it may cause the whole evolutionist crowd to re-think their beliefs. We’ll call it ‘Darwingate’, and [scream fraud when google ignores our creative speeling.](http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2009/12/03/google-fraud/) I’m not sure why this wasn’t in GQ in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/27 "2009-12-05T14:47:23Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Humans evolved on the grassy plains of east Africa. A lot of the features that separate us from other species of primates are specific adaptations to that environment. We walk upright on two legs because it’s a more efficient way of covering long distances on flat open ground. We aren’t covered in hair because sweating is an useful way to shed excess heat in a sunny open environment. We have a brain that helps us work together as pack hunters and communal gatherers. > > Our closest relatives, the chimps, evolved for a different environment. They’re forest foragers, not grassland hunters. So, because they were subject to different environmental pressures, they evolved in a different direction. Well then, explain the short black people that forage the jungle deep in Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Tero1111](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Tero1111](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tero1111)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/28 "2009-12-05T14:48:32Z")
Why are there still bacteria and plants? In fact, the main part of life is bacteria and plants. We are just parasites on that basic foundation of life. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/29 "2009-12-05T15:06:26Z")
> [@Terraplane](#): > > The species we are evolved from isn’t still around. That species is just a common ancestor that we share with apes. If one species only ever evolved into one single other species the world would likely have a grand total of one species. > [@Voyager](#): > > Amid all the crud here, **Terraplane** has it. Our ancestor (who was not a monkey) no longer exists. In fact we have many ancestral species who no longer exist, some of which were ancestral to both us and our nearest neighbors, the chimps. Well, “has it” depends on what **Terraplane** intended to mean. If the intent was a complete aside – “by the way, unrelated to evolution, our common ancestor didn’t persist into modern times” then it’s technically correct but does not address the OP. If the intent was “because the common ancestor turned into humans and chimps and was no longer itself,” that’s flat-out wrong. As would be “Humans and chimps better suited the environment and lived, while the common ancestor _necessarily_ died out, being an older form.” Evolution does not change one species into another, it (sometimes) changes a population of that species into another, often leaving the original species intact. Evolution does not move in a direction toward improved forms; instead, accident and chance pick off some forms while leaving others behind. This _tends to_ select for traits fitting the _current_ environment but does not imply a better form the next time environmental conditions change. Species split into populations, subspecies, and new species all the time. The “old” species can co-exist with the new subspecies or species until fate causes further changes, up to and including wiping out one or both of the now-different forms. If the common ancestor evolving into humans and chimps meant there were no more of the common ancestor, we wouldn’t still have wolves and: Affenpinscher Afghan Hound Airedale Terrier Akita Alaskan Malamute American Bulldog American Eskimo Dog American Foxhound American Pit Bull Terrier American Staffordshire Terrier American Water Spaniel Anatolian Shepherd Dog Argentine Dogo Australian Cattle Dog Australian Shepherd Australian Terrier B Basenji Basset Hound Beagle Bearded Collie Beauceron Bedlington Terrier Belgian Malinois Belgian Sheepdog Belgian Tervuren Bernese Mountain Dog Bichon Frise Black and Tan Coonhound Black Russian Terrier Bloodhound Bluetick Coonhound Border Collie Border Terrier Borzoi Boston Terrier Bouvier Des Flandres Boxer Boykin Spaniel Briard Brittany Brussels Griffon Bull Terrier Bull Terrier (Miniature) Bulldog Bullmastiff C Cairn Terrier Canaan Dog Cane Corso Cardigan Welsh Corgi Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Cesky Terrier Chesapeake Bay Retriever Chihuahua Chinese Crested Chinese Shar-Pei Chow Chow Clumber Spaniel Cocker Spaniel Collie (Rough and Smooth) Curly-Coated Retriever D Dachshund Dalmatian Dandie Dinmont Terrier Doberman Pinscher Dogue de Bordeaux E English Cocker Spaniel English Foxhound English Setter English Springer Spaniel English Toy Spaniel F Field Spaniel Finnish Spitz Flat-Coated Retriever Fox Terrier (Smooth) Fox Terrier (Toy) Fox Terrier (Wire) French Bulldog G German Pinscher German Shepherd Dog German Shorthaired Pointer German Wirehaired Pointer Giant Schnauzer Glen of Imaal Terrier Golden Retriever Gordon Setter Great Dane Great Pyrennes Greater Swiss Mountain Dog Greyhound H Harrier Havanese Hovawart I Ibizan Hound Icelandic Sheepdog Irish Red & White Setter Irish Setter Irish Terrier Irish Water Spaniel Irish Wolfhound Italian Greyhound J Jack Russell Terrier Japanese Chin K Keeshond Kerry Blue Terrier Komondor Kuvasz L Labrador Retriever Lakeland Terrier Leonberger Lhasa Apso Löwchen M Maltese Manchester Terrier Manchester Terrier (Toy) Mastiff Miniature Bull Terrier Miniature Pinscher Miniature Poodle Miniature Schnauzer N Neapolitan Mastiff Newfoundland Norfolk Terrier Norwegian Buhund Norwegian Elkhound Norwegian Lundehund Norwich Terrier Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever O Old English Sheepdog Otterhound P Papillon Parson Russell Terrier Pekingese Pembroke Welsh Corgi Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen Pharaoh Hound Plott Pointer Polish Lowland Sheepdog Pomeranian Poodle (Miniature) Poodle (Standard) Poodle (Toy) Portuguese Water Dog Pug Puli Pyrenean Shepherd R Redbone Coonhound Rhodesian Ridgeback Rottweiler S Saint Bernard Saluki Samoyed Schipperke Schnauzer(Giant) Schnauzer (Miniature) Schnauzer (Standard) Scottish Deerhound Scottish Terrier Sealyham Terrier Shetland Sheepdog Shiba Inu Shih Tzu Siberian Husky Silky Terrier Skye Terrier Smooth Fox Terrier Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier Spinone Italiano Staffordshire Bull Terrier Standard Poodle Standard Schnauzer Sussex Spaniel Swedish Vallhund T Tibetan Mastiff Tibetan Spaniel Tibetan Terrier Tosa Toy Fox Terrier Toy Manchester Terrier Toy Poodle V Vizsla W Weimaraner Welsh Corgi (Cardigan) Welsh Corgi (Pembroke) Welsh Springer Spaniel Welsh Terrier West Highland White Terrier Whippet Wire Fox Terrier Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Y Yorkshire Terrier The reason we don’t have the common ancestor any more is unknown and probably unknowable – it just happened that they perished and we didn’t. But that’s not true for dogs, as you can see, or for many other species. . ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/30 "2009-12-05T15:21:13Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Well then, explain the short black people that forage the jungle deep in Africa. What needs explaining? ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/31 "2009-12-05T15:24:10Z")
[This question](http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC150.html) is covered in the [Index to Creationist Claims](http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html), along with a massive assortment of other evolutionary questions. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/32 "2009-12-05T15:24:49Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.utdallas.edu/~besp/images/Ape\_and\_Human\_Evolution\_Tree.JPG](http://www.utdallas.edu/~besp/images/Ape_and_Human_Evolution_Tree.JPG) I think I could mate with one of those. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/33 "2009-12-05T15:54:21Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I think I could mate with one of those. Keep your hands off my orangutan! Apes are our evolutionary **relatives** , not our evolutionary **parents**. Our mommys and daddys are dead, but our cousins and nephews are still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/34 "2009-12-05T16:30:57Z")
**Sailboat** : Tl;dr! Anyway, as others have said, the important thing to understand is that evolution is a local phenomenon. Let’s say there’s a big group of some animal. While foraging, half of them cross a ford over a river into a rocky area, while the rest stay closer to home, which is more forested. Then there’s an earthquake and the river’s impassable. These two groups now live in different conditions – one in forest, one in rock. The things there to eat are different. The shade is different, and therefore means of temperature control. The footing is different. So if the rocky group evolves over time to meet these new challenges, it’ll be very different than the other group. But they’ll both still exist, because they both have adapted to suit their current environments. Until such time as something else changes and they either adapt again, or die out. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/35 "2009-12-05T16:36:03Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I think I could mate with one of those. Which one? Is she the gorilla your dreams? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/36 "2009-12-05T17:19:29Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Those monkeys that are still around are descended from monkeys that avoided getting their asses caught in the particular crack that selected for human traits. > Today’s monkeys are probably not exactly the same as the monkeys which we evolved from since, in the ensuing two or three million years, there’s been time for lots of genetic drift _and_ selection events within the monkey population. Yes, that’s it, but delete the “probably” from your second sentence. Also, apes split off from monkeys a lot more than 3M years ago. Multiply that by 10. > [@The Hamster King](#): > > Humans evolved on the grassy plains of east Africa. A lot of the features that separate us from other species of primates are specific adaptations to that environment. We walk upright on two legs because it’s a more efficient way of covering long distances on flat open ground. We aren’t covered in hair because sweating is an useful way to shed excess heat in a sunny open environment. We have a brain that helps us work together as pack hunters and communal gatherers. > > Our closest relatives, the chimps, evolved for a different environment. They’re forest foragers, not grassland hunters. So, because they were subject to different environmental pressures, they evolved in a different direction. While the genus \*Homo \*probably evolved on the grassy plains of Africa (~2M years ago), our earlies ancestors who walked upright probably didn’t. The more common hypothesis these days is that we’ve been walking upright for at least 4M years, and probably even longer. At that time, our ancestors were likely living in a mixed environment of woodlands and grass and were still adapted to spending a significant amount of time in the trees. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/37 "2009-12-05T17:28:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, that’s it, but delete the “probably” from your second sentence. A nitpick, maybe…but if you are saying that species always get highly modified over time, I don’t think that is certain. [Crocodiles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile) and [coelacanths](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth) (for example) are considered to be nearly identical to their long ago ancestors. For crocodiles: > [@](#): > > They are an ancient lineage, and are believed to have changed little since the time of the dinosaurs. They are believed to be 200 million years old whereas dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago; crocodiles survived great extinction events. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/38 "2009-12-05T17:32:46Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > A nitpick, maybe…but if you are saying that species always get highly modified over time, I don’t think that is certain. [Crocodiles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile) and [coelacanths](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth) (for example) are considered to be nearly identical to their long ago ancestors. Note the 4 words immediately after “probably” in that post. No nitpick required. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/39 "2009-12-05T17:33:05Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Because chickens taste better and are easier to catch. Long pork. The other other white meat 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069/40 "2009-12-05T17:35:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If lions exist, why are there still tigers? In the beginning there was a Great Void. And Ceiling Cat sayeth, [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolution-why-are-there-still-monkeys-apes-chimps-etc/520069.md?page=3)