# Evolutionists, Darwinians, and other misguided folk... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2001, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240 "2001-09-07T15:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Phobos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Phobos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phobos)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/61 "2001-09-10T13:47:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Royal Sampler \* > This may be taken to show that natural selection can do something, but not that it can create anything that was not already in existence. Straw man. As you can see below, biologists are not saying that natural selection is a creative force. It is a selection of existing traits in a gene pool. It can reshape a population by eliminating some variations but it is not adding new info to the gene pool. Mutation, recombination, and gene flow can add new traits to a population upon which selection/drift can put to the test. Mechanisms that Decrease Genetic Variation - Natural Selection - Sexual Selection - Genetic Drift Mechanisms that Increase Genetic Variation - Mutation - Recombination - Gene Flow (source: Chris Colby, “Introduction to Evolutionary Biology” 1996…[http://www.talkorigins.org](http://www.talkorigins.org) has a link to this somewhere) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/62 "2001-09-10T15:26:22Z")
**Royal Sampler** , if you’re still reading, please take note of the following: What you have done is generally known here and elsewhere as a “drive-by witnessing.” While it might make people feel good, dropping in to witness is useless unless you have the strength of faith to stick around. Sticking your head into a room to yell “you’re all wrong!” and then leaving is not going to win anyone to your cause. Quite the opposite, in fact; such behavior will only annoy and anger those whom you are ostensibly trying to win for Christ. You do yourself, your fellow believers, and your Christ no favors by doing this. ---
**Author:** ![walor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@walor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/walor)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/63 "2001-09-10T16:11:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > \*\* > Royal Sampler, I have a question. > > How many anti-evolutionist books have you read, and how many books on biology have you read? > > -Ben \*\* [adding nothing to the debate] **One question?** [/adding nothing to the debate] 😕 ---
**Author:** ![jmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmonster)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/64 "2001-09-10T16:25:01Z")
Hello, **capacitor**. I am sorry that you are having an existentialist crisis. Please do not burden us with your delusions of futility. Thank you. jmonster ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/65 "2001-09-10T16:40:40Z")
Phobos wrote: > [@](#): > > (source: Chris Colby, “Introduction to Evolutionary Biology” 1996…[http://www.talkorigins.org](http://www.talkorigins.org) has a link to this somewhere) Right here, as a matter of fact: [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html) ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/66 "2001-09-11T00:10:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\ ***Royal Sampler** , if you’re still reading, please take note of the following: > What you have done is generally known here and elsewhere as a “drive-by witnessing.” > > While it might make people feel good, dropping in to witness is useless unless you have the strength of faith to stick around. Sticking your head into a room to yell “you’re all wrong!” and then leaving is not going to win anyone to your cause. Quite the opposite, in fact; such behavior will only annoy and anger those whom you are ostensibly trying to win for Christ. > > You do yourself, your fellow believers, and your Christ no favors by doing this. \*\* Apparently we’re too misguided for him to bother with further. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/67 "2001-09-11T00:10:29Z")
\*\*Royal Sampler wrote: If evolution occurs over millions of years, the amount of evidence should staggering. Yet we can’t find the fossils that show it. Why not?\*\* Let’s look at it this way; suppose that tomorrow some evidence is found that evolution is indeed false. It’s irrefutably proven to be false. Now, why should we accept Creationism as the **RIGHT** theory to explain bio-diversity? Why not accept the Hindu Creation story? Or Shinto? Or Norse? What makes the Christian creation story the right one and the other’s false? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/68 "2001-09-11T00:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Darwin’s Finch \* > \*\*Apparently we’re too misguided for him to bother with further. \*\* It makes one wonder why he even bothered to show up in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/69 "2001-09-11T01:41:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmonster \* > \*\*Hello, **capacitor**. I am sorry that you are having an existentialist crisis. Please do not burden us with your delusions of futility. Thank you. > jmonster \*\* What do you mean by that, now? Maybe I overstated what others said, but I just can’t help shake the feeling that this is becoming a pro-atheist board. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/70 "2001-09-11T02:37:25Z")
Pro-atheist? I don’t think so. This is more of a “Missouri” board in that, if someone is going to make claims of a fantastic or unusual nature(i.e. flying saucers, faked moon landings, psychic healing or super-powered invisible people that claim responibility for _everything_) we’re gonna shout out as a group, " **Show me!**. ---
**Author:** ![JimOfAllTrades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JimOfAllTrades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimOfAllTrades)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/71 "2001-09-11T02:46:47Z")
> [@](#): > > What do you mean by that, now? Maybe I overstated what others said, but I just can’t help shake the feeling that this is becoming a pro-atheist board. No, I don’t think so. It is, however, definitely a pro- **science** board, and it has always been one. Science (the best tool we have to investigate the universe around us) overwhelmingly supports the idea that biological evolution has happened (and is happening) on an Earth that is around four billion years old, in a universe that is around 15 to 20 billion years old. Science just as overwhelmingly shows young-earth creationism to be silly. Some people think this means that science says there is no god, or at least that science says **their** god doesn’t exist. This isn’t true, as science says essentially nothing about the existence (or lack thereof) of a god. Science (even the evil evolution part of it) does not equal atheism. Ugly ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/72 "2001-09-11T04:02:08Z")
The OPer has disappeared. Again, RickJay’s Ninth Law is proven correct. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/73 "2001-09-11T05:12:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by walor \* > \*\*[adding nothing to the debate] **One question?** [/adding nothing to the debate] 😕 \*\* What’s the big deal? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/74 "2001-09-11T06:37:10Z")
He ( **walor** ) was making a joke, **Ben**. Notwithstanding the face that you phrased your request within the boundaries of a single sentence, you did ask for two pieces of information. I myself stifled a smartass urge to post right after you with “That’s _two_ questions! :D” But I didn’t think it was that important. ---
**Author:** ![walor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@walor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/walor)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240/75 "2001-09-11T09:21:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > > What’s the big deal? > > -Ben Sorry Ben, it **was** a weak attempt at humour… no big deal at all my friend. pax [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-darwinians-and-other-misguided-folk/80240.md?page=3)