# Evolutionists..Out of it in Africa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-out-of-it-in-africa/200084 "2003-09-07T12:56:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-out-of-it-in-africa/200084/21 "2003-09-09T11:14:39Z")
ugh, just Godwinnned my own thread, I guesss you win Tom, John et, al šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-out-of-it-in-africa/200084/22 "2003-09-09T12:59:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > The theory that is _currently_ most widely held is the second. A number of Neandertal remains were examined for DNA and it was determined that the Neandertal DNA was sufficiently different to rule out the possibility that we ever interbred with them. Any such conclusions do need to be evaluated in light of the fact that the ā€œhumanā€ genome sequence is primarily the sequence of one individual humanā€™s DNA. I could even get his name with a little digging. He still runs a laboratory out in California, if I recall correctly. Thus, the statistical validity of a species-wide determination in this case is rather low. ---
**Author:** ![rnaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/47e85d/32.png) [@rnaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rnaka)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-out-of-it-in-africa/200084/23 "2003-09-09T13:14:54Z")
I think you are thinking of Venter, but you do not recall correctly the issue. The issue was Venter used himself as one of the samples for the Celerix effort. There were I think four others. There was also the international consortium effort, which used another sample set. I do not think your objection has any sense to it. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-out-of-it-in-africa/200084/24 "2003-09-09T13:41:32Z")
It is not really my field (although I do take passing interest), but the ā€œOut of Africaā€ thing seems to get more supported by data with each passing month. I am familiar with the genetic evidence, but I always kind of overlook the paleontologic (I am training as a geneticist). Anyway, a new find was reported in a pair of papers in _Nature_ a few months ago - rather old human remains from Herto in Middle Awash, Ethiopia, which seem to fall into the gap period of 160,000 years ago. This is nice, because apparently the best dated modern humans, most complete from that period were from 115,000 years ago and were found in Israel. This places the Herto find right in the African bottleneck before radiation. > **[Stratigraphic, chronological and behavioural contexts of Pleistocene Homo...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12802333/?dopt=Abstract)** > > Clarifying the geographic, environmental and behavioural contexts in which the emergence of anatomically modern Homo sapiens occurred has proved difficult, particularly because Africa lacked adequate geochronological, palaeontological and... > **[Pleistocene Homo sapiens from Middle Awash, Ethiopia - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12802332/?dopt=Abstract)** > > The origin of anatomically modern Homo sapiens and the fate of Neanderthals have been fundamental questions in human evolutionary studies for over a century. A key barrier to the resolution of these questions has been the lack of substantial and... [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list\_uids=12802315&dopt=Abstract](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12802315&dopt=Abstract) (News & VIews) Iā€™m sure there are alternative hypotheses, and of course these should continue to be considered, given the wide range of fields from which the evidence comes and the results which donā€™t always make sense. It does seem that ā€œOut of Africaā€ is getting more attention, and seems to be explaining hominid radiation better than multiregionalism. Again, I defer to the real evo-paleo people on the board. Venter used his own DNA for the Celera project, but the finished human genome is a conglomeration of public and private efforts. He was not the only sample used. Furthermore, quite a large effort is ongoing to identify and sequence polymorphic regions from populations around the planet. Weā€™re on top of the genetics. ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-out-of-it-in-africa/200084/25 "2003-09-09T18:55:25Z")
Edwino, I hope you didnā€™t take my remarks about geneticists as dispariging, I have utmost respect for the field and believe it is a great tool in an interdisciplinary study like bio-anthro, hell, I may have even taken a few courses myself šŸ˜‰ Iā€™m just saying it cannot be used independantly of paleontology to explain millions of years of history. We need each other to complete the story. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-out-of-it-in-africa/200084/26 "2003-09-10T02:13:18Z")
No argument here, **labmonkey**. I study molecular evolution, and I know how many assumptions and estimations one must make, especially in things like mtDNA analysis. It is the same with paleo in some respects. We can only hope with enough observation and enough cross check, we can get rid of all of the noise in the system. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-out-of-it-in-africa/200084/27 "2003-09-10T02:21:06Z")
Who was it that said (to paraphrase): ā€œI know that my DNA had ancestors, but we donā€™t know if your fossils had descendantsā€?šŸ™‚ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolutionists-out-of-it-in-africa/200084.md?page=1)