# Evolved from what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 22, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319 "2012-01-22T18:30:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/21 "2012-01-23T05:48:31Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > However, when an axolotl turns into a salamander, there really is no axolotl there any more. The old “can god regenerate a limb?” question is out, though, him being an axolotl. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/22 "2012-01-23T05:58:36Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Pointless. > > From the OP’s profile. > > > [@](#): > > > > Realised that the greatest guru of all is Yeshua…(yes, THAT Yeshua, Jesus the Christ) You know, anyone refers to him as Jesus the Christ, my mind starts singing, “Jesus the Christ! The wonderful, wonderful Christ! Whenever he gets in a fix, he reaches for his crucifix!” But that might just be me. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/23 "2012-01-23T06:26:53Z")
Oh, another one. Sure, we get your “drift”. I eagerly await a reply to the answers provided so far. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/24 "2012-01-23T06:39:13Z")
Out of wonder, at what level of genetic diversity does a species count as “extinct?” I’ve heard rumors here and there about so-and-so genus/species/group of animals being “the same as they were \ of years ago” like sharks. Is this, like everything else, random happenstance that they didn’t encounter any impetus that weeded out the ones that didn’t express different genetic traits, or is it a disingenuous pop-science assertion that hides the fact that sharks are as close to 15-million year old proto-sharks as we are to 15-million year old primates? ---
**Author:** ![BeaMyra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@BeaMyra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeaMyra)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/25 "2012-01-23T06:53:32Z")
The way I see it is that we are evolving still. So are monkeys and chimps and gorillas. They are becoming better monkeys, chimps and gorillas. What confuses people is we didn’t directly evolve from those. It’s not like a gorilla or chimp or monkey gave birth to something that became a human. We’re cousins. It’s like Prototype Primate, gave birth to four kids. One of them was a monkey, one was a gorilla, one was a chimp and one a human. OK that is way oversimplifying it, but it gives you a picture of how humans and chimps (etc) are really distant cousins ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/26 "2012-01-23T07:24:04Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > runner pat writes: > > \> Pointless. > > I think that saying that it’s pointless to try to teach someone who asks ill-conceived questions is giving up too easily. I think that’s the equivalent of telling someone that they are stupid and can’t possibly learn anything, so they shouldn’t ask questions. I think that it’s better to tell them to start by reading an introduction to the subject they are asking about so they understand better what questions make sense. If it’s pointless, we might as well pack up the SDMB and go home. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/27 "2012-01-23T07:54:14Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Is this, like everything else, random happenstance that they didn’t encounter any impetus that weeded out the ones that didn’t express different genetic traits, or is it a disingenuous pop-science assertion that hides the fact that sharks are as close to 15-million year old proto-sharks as we are to 15-million year old primates? It’s that their main body form, which is all we know about something more than a few thousand years old, is remarkably similar to the body form of a modern day animal or plant. For prehistoric sharks it often means: “They still have the same teeth.” ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/28 "2012-01-23T12:27:17Z")
To continue with the “my ancestors came from Germany” analogy, if you go to Germany today you wil not find any of my ancestors. There are lots of Germans, some of whom are older than me, but none of them are my ancestors. Because while my branch of the family was making a living in America, the rest also kept moving and growing. Just because no one over there speaking German today is my direct ancestor does not mean we are not both descended from the same people. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/29 "2012-01-23T15:13:24Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Pointless. > > From the OP’s profile. > > > [@](#): > > > > Realised that the greatest guru of all is Yeshua…(yes, THAT Yeshua, Jesus the Christ) Ah, religious, eh? Would it interest you to know that religious people worldwide, specifically Creationist Christians, believed in evolution before Darwin came along? Darwin explained _a method by which_ this evolution occurred (natural selection) – this evolution that everyone, Christians included, could see had happened and already agreed upon. Evolution is just “change over time.” It’s obvious that life in the past was different – even “natural and revealed religion” professors could see that. The idea that “evolution” itself does not exist, or even the idea that it somehow stands in opposition to religion, is a recent creation specifically in reaction to the perceived rise (success) of Darwinian teachings about natural selection. Christians who question Darwinisim _already believed in evolution before Darwin published_. It’s a matter of historical record – you can look it up. So whoever in your church or belief structure is telling you to question evolution **is lying to you** – _deliberately_ – to control your beliefs. That ought to alarm you a lot more than a monkey in the family tree. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/30 "2012-01-23T15:21:46Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Out of wonder, at what level of genetic diversity does a species count as “extinct?” I’ve heard rumors here and there about so-and-so genus/species/group of animals being “the same as they were \ of years ago” like sharks. Is this, like everything else, random happenstance that they didn’t encounter any impetus that weeded out the ones that didn’t express different genetic traits, or is it a disingenuous pop-science assertion that hides the fact that sharks are as close to 15-million year old proto-sharks as we are to 15-million year old primates? To answer your question about sharks, just think about this: Which shark are you talking about? A shark that is as big as a whale, and eats by filter feeding, or a shark that looks pretty much like a stingray (and rays are closely related to sharks)? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/31 "2012-01-23T16:04:36Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Ah, religious, eh? > > Would it interest you to know that religious people worldwide, specifically Creationist Christians, believed in evolution before Darwin came along? > > Darwin explained _a method by which_ this evolution occurred (natural selection) – this evolution that everyone, Christians included, could see had happened and already agreed upon. > > Evolution is just “change over time.” It’s obvious that life in the past was different – even “natural and revealed religion” professors could see that. > > The idea that “evolution” itself does not exist, or even the idea that it somehow stands in opposition to religion, is a recent creation specifically in reaction to the perceived rise (success) of Darwinian teachings about natural selection. > > Christians who question Darwinisim _already believed in evolution before Darwin published_. It’s a matter of historical record – you can look it up. > > So whoever in your church or belief structure is telling you to question evolution **is lying to you** – _deliberately_ – to control your beliefs. > > That ought to alarm you a lot more than a monkey in the family tree. I don’t get this whole post. Evolution has some specific meanings. What Darwin wrote contradicted the belief that God created all species. He ran into immediate problems with Christian believers. It’s not in any way something that is a “recent creation.” Darwin was not the first to express the notion of evolution, true, although he gave it a coherent logic that explained most of the problems of earlier attempts. However, while some Christians wrote about evolution, the vast majority of Christians did not agree with either the general or the specific at the time. The Church - the various Churches of various Christian denominations - agreed that Darwin was wrong. You need to name names, times, books, denominations, anything and everything you think is support for this odd assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/32 "2012-01-23T16:08:19Z")
Eeek. Yet another witnessing thread cunningly disguised as poorly phrased question about a scientific topic. Await the OP’s return with his debunking of the scientific theory in question! ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/33 "2012-01-23T16:22:40Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Await the OP’s return with his debunking of the scientific theory in question! Aw, I’m sick of awaiting for that. I’m awaiting for pie. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/34 "2012-01-23T16:31:30Z")
Personally I like the argument that maybe there’s an “evolve” gene - you can’t buy that type of funny. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/35 "2012-01-23T16:35:25Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Personally I like the argument that maybe there’s an “evolve” gene - you can’t buy that type of funny. That reminds me of a thread from years ago. If evolution is true, then why is it that all species have a desire to procreate? Mere coincidence? Ha! To the OP’s credit, he got it pretty fast. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/36 "2012-01-23T16:47:27Z")
If we came from dirt, why is there still dirt? If woman came from man’s rib, why are there still men’s ribs? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/37 "2012-01-23T17:03:17Z")
It’s not like the OP is ever going to come back to this thread, you know. His type seldom do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/38 "2012-01-23T17:10:51Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It’s not like the OP is ever going to come back to this thread, you know. His type seldom do. I noticed that he has 3 total posts, all as OPs in this forum, and two of those are about evolution. He’s the ascend vs descend guy. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/39 "2012-01-23T17:41:24Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > If we came from dirt, why is there still dirt? If woman came from man’s rib, why are there still men’s ribs? Mmmm ribs. I like ribs. Prediction, our OP won’t be back and this thread will evolve into pointless jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319/40 "2012-01-23T17:48:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I don’t get this whole post. > > Evolution has some specific meanings. What Darwin wrote contradicted the belief that God created all species. He ran into immediate problems with Christian believers. It’s not in any way something that is a “recent creation.” > > Darwin was not the first to express the notion of evolution, true, although he gave it a coherent logic that explained most of the problems of earlier attempts. However, while some Christians wrote about evolution, the vast majority of Christians did not agree with either the general or the specific at the time. The Church - the various Churches of various Christian denominations - agreed that Darwin was wrong. > > You need to name names, times, books, denominations, anything and everything you think is support for this odd assertion. Eh, Darwin is recent as far as I’m concerned. What I meant was, religious people weren’t against evolution before Darwin published. Stephen Jay Gould has written about that. Of course, they thought the evolution seen in the rocks was part of God’s plan. edited to add: My point being that being “against evolution” is aiming at the wrong target. “Against _natural selection_ as an explanation for observed evolution” is a more coherent position, although of course still demonstrably wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evolved-from-what/610319.md?page=3)