# Ex-BF erects billboard claiming ex-GF aborted their baby. His free speech vs her privacy rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 7, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595 "2011-06-07T04:30:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/141 "2011-06-08T19:21:14Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > What if it turns out he may not have been, or definitely was not, the father? > > I’m asking, not argueing. Well thats different isnt it? Does that really need saying? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/142 "2011-06-08T19:25:45Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Except in THIS case the guy has a serious link (genetically/procreationally/personally) to the “nothing” at hand. > > He aint just spewing random information about random people/places/things that have fuck all to do with him. > > I’d like to think you could tell the difference between the two. Huh? When else are people communicating sensitive/personal information to another? Do they regularly do it to random strangers or are they more likely to talk to the people they are closest to and/or people who are parties to the situation? There is nothing you might say to your GF/wife that you would would consider personal and not want widely disseminated? It would be ok for them to advertise it to anyone and everyone because, in your view, she was close to you and/or the issue? Hell, if you are married the law even recognizes this with a spousal privilege. That privilege in no way applies here (read that again) but shows the law/society recognizes you may say things to those you are most intimate with and expect a measure of confidentiality from them. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/143 "2011-06-08T19:26:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This sums up my position on this pretty well. If he can’t publicly announce that a fetus he fathered was aborted, what can he announce? Something not deeply personal, private and likely embarrassing to someone else? I know that really narrows his choices and all. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/144 "2011-06-08T19:39:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This sums up my position on this pretty well. If he can’t publicly announce that a fetus he fathered was aborted, what can he announce? But that’s not what he did, was it? > [@billboard](#): > > This Would Have Been A Picture Of My 2-Month Old Baby If The Mother Had Decided To Not KILL Our Child! He publicly accused her of a crime-the murder of their child. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/145 "2011-06-08T19:41:22Z")
Oh come on, everybody - you included - know he’s talking about abortion. Even the woman suing him isn’t claiming she was accused of murder. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/146 "2011-06-08T19:42:06Z")
Again turning the attention of the thread participants to the Facebook question… …I suspect that many people are intuitively concluding that the billboard should subject the billboard’s creator to liability, and that the Facebook posting should not. > [@](#): > > As for Facebook the courts have been struggling for a long time to come up with a coherent set of rules for how this all works. Is a billboard more “public” than Facebook? It seems obvious to me that a Facebook post can be more public than the billboard in this case, since the community that can connect the dots (recognize the man, know the woman he was dating, realize she was the one that must have been pregnant) is not large. There’s a ready acceptance of the billboard’s legal liability for its creator, and a real reluctance to reach the same conclusion for Facebook. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/147 "2011-06-08T19:44:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Oh come on, everybody - you included - know he’s talking about abortion. Even the woman suing him isn’t claiming she was accused of murder. Yes, we all know he is talking about abortion. He equated abortion to murder. So therefore he is accusing her of murdering their child. Doesn’t matter if she is suing him for that. That is what he did. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/148 "2011-06-08T19:56:19Z")
OK, so what? Pro lifers accuse abortion performing Doctors of being murderers all the time. They aren’t suing. eta: basically I am saying this an asinine and useless line of argument. Who cares? It is beyond a side issue for this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/149 "2011-06-08T20:02:49Z")
He is accusing a specific person of murdering another specific “person”, though as I said upthread I personally don’t think the woman has much of a case is she is not identified by name. Your comment makes me wonder if any doctors have in fact tried to sue for defamation because of accusations of being “baby killers”. It sure sounds defamatory to me. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/150 "2011-06-08T20:03:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > OK, so what? Pro lifers accuse abortion performing Doctors of being murderers all the time. They aren’t suing. > > eta: basically I am saying this an asinine and useless line of argument. Who cares? It is beyond a side issue for this topic. IANAL but I am pretty sure saying “abortion is murder and anyone who does it is a murderer” is different from saying something like, “ **CarnalK** murdered my child” and publishing that when it is not true. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/151 "2011-06-08T20:07:17Z")
Well, yes, maybe I should sue when someone calls me a thief when all I did was violate a copyright. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/152 "2011-06-08T20:19:23Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > OK, so what? Pro lifers accuse abortion performing Doctors of being murderers all the time. They aren’t suing. > > eta: basically I am saying this an asinine and useless line of argument. Who cares? It is beyond a side issue for this topic. Well, the attorneys here feel a defamation suit would be difficult at best to make stick and probably would fail. Personally I think it’d be interesting to see litigated but that is neither here nor there. I did note in [post #68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13888560&postcount=68) that there is a civil suit for “Public Disclosure of Embarrassing Private Facts.” It would seem to me (again noting IANAL) there is a good case for the woman to be had there. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/153 "2011-06-08T20:20:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But that’s not what he did, was it? > He publicly accused her of a crime-the murder of their child. And if you bother to look, one of my earlier post noted that IMO he possibly legally screwed the pooch by calling her a murderer. There are two issues here. Is he in trouble/wrong for EXACTLY what he did and EXACTLY how the law/world/legal system works right now? Then there is the general principles sorta of discussion that relates to the given scenario. And of course, as always, plenty of dopers can’t or won’t be able to tell the difference between the two and goofiness ensues. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/154 "2011-06-08T20:25:47Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Oh come on, everybody - you included - know he’s talking about abortion. Even the woman suing him isn’t claiming she was accused of murder. 1. Thousands of people passing that billboard when it was first put up didn’t know what he meant-they only knew that he was accusing a woman of murdering his child. 2. On the other hand, he _had_ to have known that the media would pick up on it and broadcast her name all over the place, so I’m not buying any of that “At least he kept it anonymous” crap. He was probably hoping for a blurb along the line of, “Woman publicly accused of child murder identified as Jane Doe! More on that story later.” ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/155 "2011-06-08T20:30:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. Thousands of people passing that billboard when it was first put up didn’t know what he meant-they only knew that he was accusing a woman of murdering his child. Did those people also happen to miss the big, capitalized “PRO-LIFE” in the add? > [@](#): > > 1. On the other hand, he _had_ to have known that the media would pick up on it and broadcast her name all over the place, so I’m not buying any of that “At least he kept it anonymous” crap. He was probably hoping for a blurb along the line of, “Woman publicly accused of child murder identified as Jane Doe! More on that story later.” Virtually no one here would know who the woman is question was or what she looked like if she hadn’t decided to sue. This case kind reminds me of the [Streisand Effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/156 "2011-06-08T20:32:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Again turning the attention of the thread participants to the Facebook question… > > …I suspect that many people are intuitively concluding that the billboard should subject the billboard’s creator to liability, and that the Facebook posting should not. > > It seems obvious to me that a Facebook post can be more public than the billboard in this case, since the community that can connect the dots (recognize the man, know the woman he was dating, realize she was the one that must have been pregnant) is not large. > > There’s a ready acceptance of the billboard’s legal liability for its creator, and a real reluctance to reach the same conclusion for Facebook. > > Why? The law has not caught up with the online world and we are seeing weird results. On the face of it publishing on Facebook should be no different from publishing anywhere else. If you defame someone there then yeah, you are probably open to a civil suit. Recently a [blogger was sued](http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcmanus-sues-facebook-for-failing-to-remove-fake-profile-pages-2660230.html) for reporting _truthful_ information and ordered to pay $60,000 in damages. Others have been [sued](http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10133466-93.html) for [reviews](http://www.walletpop.com/2010/06/30/woman-sued-over-online-review-3-tips-to-avoid-a-lawsuit/) they have posted online. Doctors now want to [“own” any online posts](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/05/24/doctors-say-they-own-your-reviews-a-prescription-for-legal-high-jinks/) you make about them (really…when you sign forms at the doctor’s office some are now including language that has them owning what you write about them). This is another means to stop what they view as defamation. In short, I’d say there is lots of legal activity around this stuff and I see no reason why Facebook is somehow different in this respect. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/157 "2011-06-08T20:40:04Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Did those people also happen to miss the big, capitalized “PRO-LIFE” in the add? > > Virtually no one here would know who the woman is question was or what she looked like if she hadn’t decided to sue. This case kind reminds me of the [Streisand Effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect). Did you happen to notice her name on the board too? He wrote it as [N.A.N.I. National Association of Needed Information](http://timewellness.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/abortioncropped.jpg) (there is no such organization). The woman’s name is Nani. Is that a common name where you live? I’ve never heard it before. I suspect anyone who knows Nani and sees that would know it was her. Gossip ensues. Personally I could not care less what someone in Montana thinks of me. I would be more concerned with what my friends/family/neighbors think. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/158 "2011-06-08T20:55:33Z")
I can safely say that the average person looking at that billboard would **NEVER** have figured out the the name of the organization was an acronym for his ex’s name. The only reason we all know that is because the ex girlfriend outed herself. Upon seeing that billboard, the average person would have simply shrugged off the billboard as a pro-life add and N.A.N.I as an anti-abortion organization. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/159 "2011-06-08T20:56:40Z")
The woman claims that she had a miscarriage; not an abortion. In fact one of the “Pro-Life” organizations that had their name added to the sign has asked that it be removed, since they also aren’t sure an abortion occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595/160 "2011-06-08T20:57:28Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I can safely say that the average person looking at that billboard would **NEVER** have figured out the the name of the organization was an acronym for his ex’s name. The only reason we all know that is because the ex girlfriend outed herself. Upon seeing that billboard, the average person would have simply shrugged off the billboard as a pro-life add and N.A.N.I as an anti-abortion organization. To Joe Schmo sure. Wanna bet it’d get Nani’s mom’s attention? Or her boss/co-workers? Or her friends’? Or members of her church (if she goes to one)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-bf-erects-billboard-claiming-ex-gf-aborted-their-baby-his-free-speech-vs-her-privacy-rights/584595.md?page=9)