# Ex-Gay Leader Suggests That Gay Religious Leaders Say Jesus Was Gay **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2002, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753 "2002-06-06T23:23:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/1 "2002-06-06T23:23:59Z")
The opening portion of an article by Tim Wilkins of Cross Ministries in Wake Forest, NC, is reproduced below. The full article is located on [this thread](http://thebruces.stormbirds.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9623) at the Pizza Parlor and is supposed to be taken from [this news site](http://www.bpnews.net/bpcolumn.asp?ID=578) (but wouldn’t open for me when I tried to link to it). > [@](#): > > Debating/blaspheming Christ’s sexuality > By Tim Wilkins > > WAKE FOREST, N.C. (BP)–Actor W.C. Fields said, “I have spent a lot of time searching through the Bible … for loopholes.” Although history is replete with “loophole searchers,” possibly no one has done a better (or worse) job than those who adhere to “gay theology” – a reinterpretation of Scripture that approves homosexuality. > > “Gay theology” has existed for decades but was closeted for years in fear of upsetting the ecclesiastical apple cart. > > Widely believed among the “gay Christian” movement and its supporters is that Christ was homosexual. Advocates of this blasphemous belief direct attention to Jesus’ singleness, his association with 12 men (the disciples) and particularly his close relationships to other men. > > Two prominent organizations with far-reaching tentacles, SoulForce and the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Church (UFMCC), believe and broadcast that the Bible approves homosexuality. > > SoulForce describes itself as “an interfaith movement committed to ending spiritual violence perpetuated by religious policies and teachings against gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered people.” It is headed by UFMCC minister Mel White, a former “evangelical” who left his wife for a man. > > White takes every opportunity to “compassionately” berate anyone who believes homosexuality to be sin – to the point of intolerance. The Rev. Troy Perry founded UFMCC, a predominately gay church, in 1968; it boasts more than 300 churches in 17 countries. > > As director of a speaking ministry (Cross Ministry in Wake Forest, N.C.), I recently interviewed White and a UFMCC spokesman about the belief that Christ was homosexual. > > When I asked White about this view, he said, “I would not agree with anybody who holds such a view!” If what he says is true, then he apparently disagrees with most of his followers, colleagues, peers and closest friends. > > In 1999, the Rev. Nancy L. Wilson, pastor of a UFMCC church, awarded Mel White and his partner the “Distinguished Service Award” for their work among “gay Christians.” White told me, “Nancy and I are old friends; she is wonderful.” Both promote the same goals – governmental, cultural and ecclesiastical acceptance of homosexuality. > > A few years earlier, Wilson wrote, “Jesus lived an alternate lifestyle” and submitted that Jesus had homosexual relationships with the Rich Young Ruler, Lazarus and the apostle John. > > White feigned ignorance, saying, “I have never heard her say that!” (Note: I regret quoting this much but the article didn’t seem to admit of good snipping prior to the point I cut it at.) Mr. Wilkins’ operations have a website at [www.crossministry.org](http://www.crossministry.org) One article I found there on what gay people need to do (in Mr. Wilkins’ opinion) to be saved is [http://www.crossministry.org](http://www.crossministry.org)./Gays\_Need\_to\_Change.htm I’d be most interested in what people here have to say about any of the areas covered in the article (which brought together several interesting topics, albeit done in an incoherent anti-Mel White rant). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/2 "2002-06-06T23:26:13Z")
I’ve heard that before. There was an e-mail petition about people all up in arms about a supposed movie depicting Jesus as being gay. Would this be related? Personally, I’d put my money on Paul perhaps being gay-which might explain his bitterness. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/3 "2002-06-06T23:36:24Z")
The movie would be _Corpus Christi_ (and you can imagine what **Wildest Bill** had to say about that, since he’s from Corpus Christi, TX! ;)). I don’t know if there’s a connection; **Michie** ’s indefatigable search for religion-related news dug this up and she posted it over there. Spong has quite a bit of closely-reasoned Biblical exegesis on Paul as a probable closeted gay man with major scruples about his sexuality and his faith. (Does that sound at all familiar to you?) I’ll see if I can find the cite and post it tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/4 "2002-06-06T23:47:12Z")
i thought it was a musical? _Gay Jesus on Parade_… Wasn’t Jesus interested in Mary Magdalene (according to Last Temptation, and others, like Dogma) Next thing you know, Jesus will be a NAMBLA member “suffer the little children…” ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/5 "2002-06-06T23:48:10Z")
It’s just a matter of people wanting Jesus to be as much like them as possible. though to me it seems to fly in the face of every point that he ever made, it’s just like the argument that Jesus was black. First of all it doesn’t matter, being like Jesus has nothing to do with what you look like or your sexual preference, imo. Jesus may or may not have been gay, but as it’s such a complete irrelevancy to the issue and there is no evidence of it at all it’s pretty irrespnsible for a church leader to preach that. Erek ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/6 "2002-06-07T00:07:25Z")
meh. i thought the whole dealie with jesus being celibate was that he was fully human, but was never a “man”. i would find it hard, as a woman, to relate to and accept the messiah as a sexually active MAN. straight or gay, don’t give a rats ass. a fully human but somewhat asexual christ is something i’m comfortable with. god rejecting women by being so completely a MAN…not so somfortable. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/7 "2002-06-07T00:08:56Z")
sorry. it’s 1 am. i’m not coherent or thinking too brightly, but you get my meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/8 "2002-06-07T00:19:28Z")
> [@](#): > > A few years earlier, Wilson wrote, “Jesus lived an alternate lifestyle” and submitted that Jesus had homosexual relationships with the Rich Young Ruler, Lazarus and the apostle John. Cite? I woul like to see the evidence for any of this. Strikes me as projection. There is no indication that Jesus even knew what the Rich Young Ruler’s name was. Nor that He ever had sex with anyone. Why are people so sceptical about everything else in the Gospels, and so gullible on stuff that isn’t even there? _Pour epate les bourgeouisie_, I suppose. Yes, Jesus was sympathetic to outcasts. He healed lepers, but I would doubt that He was Himself a leper until someone could show why that was plausible. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/9 "2002-06-07T00:32:23Z")
I have to say, what evidence is there about Jesus’ sexuality one way or the other? It’s certainly not in the Gospels, or any of the epistles, and, sorry, but there really isn’t that much about Jesus outside of the New Testament (unless there’s some _really_ controversial passage in Josephus I’m not aware of). I don’t really see how one can begin to argue the matter. “Jesus was gay.” “No, he wasn’t.” “Was too!” “Was not!” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/10 "2002-06-07T00:35:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\* Cite? I woul like to see the evidence for any of this. > > Strikes me as projection. There is no indication that Jesus even knew what the Rich Young Ruler’s name was. Nor that He ever had sex with anyone. > > Why are people so sceptical about everything else in the Gospels, and so gullible on stuff that isn’t even there? > > _Pour epate les bourgeouisie_, I suppose. Yes, Jesus was sympathetic to outcasts. He healed lepers, but I would doubt that He was Himself a leper until someone could show why that was plausible. > Regards, > Shodan \*\* Why, OF COURSE! THAT’S IT!! He healed lepers precisely because He WASN’T a leper. And the proof that He was gay is manifest in the fact that He never cured anybody of homosexuality! [/sarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/11 "2002-06-07T01:57:57Z")
**Shodan** , fair question. My best guess is that a lot of people (or rather, a lot of sources which influence people) base themselves on the extraneous gospels that never became canon, i.e., the Gospel of Thomas. They’ve got some “nice” passages that seem pretty in sync with the canonical gospels… …which include stories about a 5-year old Jesus smiting another kid who wouldn’t play with him… …and people assume they’re just as good as the canon, so they’re acceptable. The recurring accusation you hear is that “Well, of course the Catholic church didn’t include these in the Bible–it’s got things they don’t want people to hear!” …oy. My theory. I don’t know if any of the non-canonicals have any “evidence” that Christ was gay, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s where some of this comes from. Everything else tends to be just speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/12 "2002-06-07T03:21:39Z")
Yeah, Spong was where I read that about Paul. There’s a theory to that Paul may have been molested as a child. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/13 "2002-06-07T03:40:33Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s a theory to that Paul may have been molested as a child. And this theory is based on what, exactly? Does anyone have any first hand information about Paul’s life, besides what’s in Acts and what’s in the epistles attributed to Paul? (And modern scholars don’t even believe Paul wrote all of the epistles which are traditionally attributed to him.) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/14 "2002-06-07T03:45:12Z")
So how come they’re allowed to say this: > [@](#): > > Advocates of this…belief direct attention to Jesus’ singleness, his association with 12 men (the disciples) and particularly his close relationships to other men. –when the rest of us aren’t allowed to say this? The rest of us aren’t allowed to say, “Oh, look at that 30-something guy, who isn’t married, who hangs around with 12 other guys, and who has close relationships with other guys? Oh–he must be GAAAAYYYY!!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/15 "2002-06-07T20:57:22Z")
**Duck Duck Goose** - Your point is well taken. More than that, one could mention Jesus’ close relationships with Mary Magdalene, Martha, and the other women in the Gospel narratives, and conclude that He is heterosexual. The rumors of Jesus’ being gay have been flying around for a while. Part of it is fueled by a addition to the Gospel of Mark that a researcher claimed to have found some years ago. [http://www.salon.com/feature/1998/04/cov\_10feature.html](http://www.salon.com/feature/1998/04/cov_10feature.html) Salon did an article on it. The evidence for the authenticity of the alleged fragment is quite weak. The guy who claimed to have discovered it was himself gay, and, as might be the case here, wanted to justify himself. No one else except the ‘discoverer’ has ever seen the document. It seems to me unlikely that someone would conclude that Christ is gay unless he were basing this on something other than the evidence. FWIW. Have a great weekend. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/16 "2002-06-08T00:55:55Z")
This is a whole other debate, but I tend to think–and ridiculous stories like this one to my mind confirm–that the idea of being “gay” is wholly a twentieth-century construct. In Jesus’ time, and in times up to the Victorian era, there were simply men who fooled around with other men–or men who fooled around with teenage boys–to varying degrees. Then, as now, only a very small minority stuck to boys exclusively (and, granted, maybe only a small minority would have preferred to stick with women exclusively). Building an identity around these choices is not a concept that Jesus’ followers, or Plato, or Alexander, would have understood. And as for asserting that one was predestined to stick with a single choice from birth, I suspect that they would have found that laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/17 "2002-06-08T01:01:52Z")
What this leads up to is a more general conclusion I’ve had in mind for a while now: “Gay” is a _political_ label, not a biological one, that should be exclusively associated with the late 20th-early 21st centuries. In this case, asserting that Jesus was “gay” strikes me as akin to various political tracts I’ve heard of that previously claimed that He was a communist or a capitalist. From a Christian standpoint, I think that attempts to shoehorn Christ into a political mold of man’s making is a poisonous distraction from who and what he was and what he offers us. You don’t have to be a Christian, but if you are a Christian, I think you ought to keep this in mind. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/18 "2002-06-08T01:54:06Z")
Would it matter? I mean, obviously, those from the “Jesus was gay” (shouldn’t that be “Jesus _is_ gay,” btw, or would those human aspects no longer apply after his ascension?) have a political purpose in asserting so. Political in the broadest sense of the word. But let’s say that evidence came to light – real, relatively unassailable evidence that Jesus’ sexual preference as a human being was for men. Not that he ever acted on it, or acted sexually at all as an adult human being, but that he was attracted to men. Given that some portion of the human race appears to be born with that inclination, and that Jesus was fully human, it’s not entirely ludicrous to think so. Even if one believes that homosexual attraction alone, without action, is sinful, my understanding is that the Christian position is that Jesus the man experienced and struggled with temptation to sin. Would it make a difference to anyone? Would anyone here who considers themself Christian adjust their faith one iota? Stop believing in Jesus because he was a homo? If you have to stop and think about the answer at all, or think you might, then you have insight into exactly why some people might hijack Jesus to push their political agenda. Because of people who think it would make a difference in their faith if Jesus was gay. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/19 "2002-06-08T04:02:19Z")
> [@](#): > > real, relatively unassailable evidence that Jesus’ sexual preference as a human being was for men What, something like a scripture in Jesus’ own handwriting, “Phinehas, you are so hot, meet me at the bathhouse after dinner”? Shades of the _Weekly World News_! 😃 Jerry Falwell would have an apoplexy. 😃 And when he recovered–he’d simply refuse to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753/20 "2002-06-08T04:21:56Z")
I’m with\*\* MEBuckner and DDG \*\* on this one. If the Straight Dope’s resident atheist and Christian fundy can agree that there is no evidence of Jesus’ sexual orientation in the bible or otherwise, then I must be in the correct camp. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-gay-leader-suggests-that-gay-religious-leaders-say-jesus-was-gay/112753.md?page=2)