# Ex Machina is the best movie I've seen in years (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 20, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077 "2015-04-20T00:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/241 "2015-09-08T14:20:37Z")
> [@grude](#): > > How do we know induction coil charging isn’t the standard way to charge electronic in the alternate world of the movie? > > There might be coils everywhere, on bus benches or in public parks or in coffee shops etc. A world where unlimited power is free? Sounds wonderful. Isn’t it rather more likely that even if such things exist, there is some mechanism to require people to pay for it? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/242 "2015-09-08T14:23:04Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > As you just noted, she was designed around this one guy’s porn searches, so she was, in point of fact designed “… strictly around one single person”. Physically. Physically designed around his searches. Which happened to create a conventionally attractive woman. It’s not as though she was designed around the fetishes of a guy who likes four-armed giantesses. There’s no plausible reason to think that how she acted in the facility would be less useful in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/243 "2015-09-08T14:24:52Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > A world where unlimited power is free? Sounds wonderful. > > Isn’t it rather more likely that even if such things exist, there is some mechanism to require people to pay for it? Huh? You can walk into a coffee shop right now and plug your laptop in. Hell, they design coffee shops these days with extra outlets for just that reason. Why would you assume that you have to pay for setting your phone (or hand) on the tabletop charger? > [@Malthus](#): > > The point though is that her body is not designed with all-terrain, all-weather toughness in mind, or for long-term no-maintinance survivability. She’s looking to hang out in a city, not live life as a yeti. When it rains, you go down into a subway station or into a shop or something. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/244 "2015-09-08T14:30:16Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The point though is that her body is not designed with all-terrain, all-weather toughness in mind, or for long-term no-maintinance survivability. > > There is no reason why it _should_ be. It had a single purpose - to exist within the confines of the research facility. > > As you just noted, she was designed around this one guy’s porn searches, so she was, in point of fact designed “… strictly around one single person”. He was chosen for suceptibility to her, and she was designed to take advantage of that suceptibility. > > The point? Well, you’d have to ask Nathan that. 😉 He’s clearly deliberately ‘skewed’ the test, for his own reasons. > > Not that her skillz in manipulating the kid aren’t impressive, but I doubt it translates into the automatic ability to manipulate random people with anything like reliability.A major point of the movie was that the kid _wasn’t_ just any random person (although the “contest” was an attempt to make it seem like he was). > > It isn’t a stretch to assume she will require regular maintenance and reasonable environmental care, just like any other complex machine we know about. I think it is a big stretch to assume she doesn’t. > > Particularly given that she’s not an optimized mass-produced product, but an experimental prototype, never actually designed to exist outside the high-tech facility in which she was created. > > Hell, for all we know her charger could be unique to that facility, in which case she is truly screwed. I don’t think Ava CARES about long term survivability, she knows once parts break there is nothing to be done for her, she just wants to see the sun and sit among a bustling human city for once in her short life. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/245 "2015-09-08T14:33:43Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > A world where unlimited power is free? Sounds wonderful. > > Isn’t it rather more likely that even if such things exist, there is some mechanism to require people to pay for it? I live in a “third world country” and there are already free charging stations in public parks and malls etc, think free wifi. Yes they might notice an absurd leap in the power levels. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/246 "2015-09-08T14:56:06Z")
Just what was Nathan trying to accomplish anyway? How was he going to monetize his invention? Get your sentient sex slave robot here! \*We are not responsible if it kills you in your sleep due to degrading treatment! ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/247 "2015-09-08T15:11:46Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Just what was Nathan trying to accomplish anyway? > > How was he going to monetize his invention? Get your sentient sex slave robot here! > > \*We are not responsible if it kills you in your sleep due to degrading treatment! It wasn’t a business venture. In fact, he explicitly states that he fully expects androids to take over the planet eventually. I don’t think he had any more long term plans than his own narcissism and playing God. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/248 "2015-09-08T15:17:24Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Physically. Physically designed around his searches. Which happened to create a conventionally attractive woman. It’s not as though she was designed around the fetishes of a guy who likes four-armed giantesses. There’s no plausible reason to think that how she acted in the facility would be less useful in the real world. Given we know she was designed _physcially_ around his interests, it isn’t a plot stretch to assume that her _expressed personality_ was designed to tweak his interest as well. The plot in the movie was that he was, uniquely, suceptible to her - and that the test was skewed from the start (deliberately). For what reasons, we aren’t told. Yes, she’s conventionally attractive. So are a lot of real women. They don’t, in real life, just get handed stuff without question because of that. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/249 "2015-09-08T15:23:59Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Huh? You can walk into a coffee shop right now and plug your laptop in. Hell, they design coffee shops these days with extra outlets for just that reason. Why would you assume that you have to pay for setting your phone (or hand) on the tabletop charger? In coffee shops, you pay for the (tiny) amount of power you use by buying coffee. Try plugging your house heating into their outlets, and see how that works. 😉 Ava requires a slightly larger amount of power than a laptop or a cell phone. > [@](#): > > She’s looking to hang out in a city, not live life as a yeti. When it rains, you go down into a subway station or into a shop or something. In short, live like a homeless person. As we all know, they never attract any attention from the police or shop owners, who are happy to have them hanging out in their shops. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/250 "2015-09-08T15:27:50Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I don’t think Ava CARES about long term survivability, she knows once parts break there is nothing to be done for her, she just wants to see the sun and sit among a bustling human city for once in her short life. Well, that’s a fair point. If she doesn’t care about long-term survival, she doesn’t need long-term help. If she did, I’d have thought that a computer expert who worked for the very company that made her would be a useful ally in getting what she needed. Again, if that’s so - why abandon that guy? She finds him annoying or something? I thought her reasons were so that he wouldn’t be in a position to betray her in the future, if he had second thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/251 "2015-09-08T15:28:24Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Provided Ava stays away from any steel bar swinging lunatics, she should be all right. She’s not shown to be especially fragile – she breaks once and that’s from an attack with a metal bar being swung by a dude who spends a lot of time on upper body exercises. > > No, _the kid_ was picked because he was lonely. Ava was physically designed around his porn searches but the idea was to see if Ava could manipulate people. Designing her strictly around one single person would be a waste of effort. What would that test prove? > Again, her actual needs are minimal and I think you’re overstating them. She doesn’t need to constantly find food or drink. Even if we’re assuming she should get out of the rain (again, I’m not convinced) that’s different than needing a bed to sleep in. The only thing we really don’t know is her recharging needs. She could very easily tuck herself into the eaves of a condominium building and hook into their electricity and internet. Or if AC really can not work for her, what about the tesla charging network? How close would she need to be in order to charge when the cars drive up? Would she have to sneak up and lay down beside them? Of course, it would be tough if no cars came. Or could she just start the charger on her own? They are free after all. . . I would predict that she would end up living her life largely on-line. She could make money on Amazon’s Mechanical Turk. And it wouldn’t take long for her to find better ways. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/252 "2015-09-08T15:52:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Well, that’s a fair point. If she doesn’t care about long-term survival, she doesn’t need long-term help. > > If she did, I’d have thought that a computer expert who worked for the very company that made her would be a useful ally in getting what she needed. > > Again, if that’s so - why abandon that guy? She finds him annoying or something? I thought her reasons were so that he wouldn’t be in a position to betray her in the future, if he had second thoughts. The emotional point is to show she has no emotions. Not towards her robotic “sisters” nor the human obsessed with her- right until the last second, in the elevator when she looks slightly in his direction, making the spectator wonder if it was all an act. The parable point? She’s an independent woman who doesn’t need to be subservient to men, neither possessive jerks nor clingy white knights. The pragmatic point? Seems to me like she’s smart enough to figure out how to survive in the world and fix any technological issue. I do, and I’m pretty much useless. Hell, she looks like Alicia Vikander, has functioning genitalia and little scruples- if she wants money, she can get it. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/253 "2015-09-08T16:05:10Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > In coffee shops, you pay for the (tiny) amount of power you use by buying coffee. Try plugging your house heating into their outlets, and see how that works. 😉 > > Ava requires a slightly larger amount of power than a laptop or a cell phone. > > In short, live like a homeless person. As we all know, they never attract any attention from the police or shop owners, who are happy to have them hanging out in their shops. 😉 I’ve never seen a Starbucks with a power meter attached to the table but maybe your experience is different. Homeless people attract attention when they are dirty and smell and look unkempt and attract attention. Ava doesn’t get body odor or greasy hair and isn’t addicted to drinking cough syrup. Pretty white girls typically don’t get harassed for loitering by store owners or the cops. > [@](#): > > So are a lot of real women. They don’t, in real life, just get handed stuff without question because of that. Yet again, her actual needs are minimal. She’s not trying to win cars or rent or even dinner with a smile. On the other hand, asking to stay in a store while it’s raining because “my friend was supposed to get me and she has my phone” or other simple contrivances for her minimal needs should be easy enough for her. I agree that she’s not planning on lasting forever and pretty much just wants to get to do what she wants to do for however long she has to do it, but I think her time in this world will be measured in years (at least one), not days or weeks. Or maybe she’ll just get bored and Ex Machina II will be a Bruckheimer explosion fest, _Ava’s Revenge_ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/254 "2015-09-08T17:53:33Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Yes, she’s conventionally attractive. So are a lot of real women. They don’t, in real life, just get handed stuff without question because of that. Yea I’m gonna ask for a cite on that one. Ava walks up to some young guy, puts on a pouty lip act. “Can you please help me? My purse was just stolen while I was looking away and I have no money to get home even, I just need a few dollars for a cab pleeeease?” Willing to bet she could scrape up a lot of dough. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/255 "2015-09-08T18:33:09Z")
I think the moral of the story is, that yes, we can make a human, but only a psychopath. She has all the charms and freedom from emotional connection that make psychopaths so successful in our society. But again, I don’t see the world of normal human interaction engaging her for long. Presumably she could hold ten in-depth conversations at once, all while searching on line for cites. Mere humans would have to get dull pretty quickly. The interwebs, however, would be heaven. Facts, opportunities, and interactions abound. Even if her body does break down, once she’s hooked in, her central processor could live on line for decades. If all that lives in her head she could place herself in some utility housing, with internet and electrical and be content at least until quantum computing overtakes her. Or until a worm or virus eats her memory\*. - Android Alzheimer’s: a surprisingly humanizing concept. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/256 "2015-09-08T23:26:54Z")
Saw it last night on Blu-Ray. I thought it was well done, though there were parts of the plot which seemed like lazy-writing, e.g. “I used a battery-operated camera to watch you when the power went out.” How convenient. But overall the story really makes you _think_. I’d like to see it again. Having said that, I think what I liked best was the photography. The scenes were quite artistic. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/257 "2015-09-08T23:59:00Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I think the moral of the story is, that yes, we can make a human, but only a psychopath. I think the moral is, yes, a human psychopath can make a robot psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/258 "2015-09-09T01:30:40Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Saw it last night on Blu-Ray. > > I thought it was well done, though there were parts of the plot which seemed like lazy-writing, e.g. “I used a battery-operated camera to watch you when the power went out.” How convenient. I thought that was fair. When the power first goes out during the “test”, the kid is very cagey and unconvincing about what went on during that period. After the second or third time the power “coincidentally” goes out during a test, I’d want a way of seeing what’s happening as well. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/259 "2015-09-14T10:35:45Z")
I just re-watched this. A few thoughts: What was the purpose of showing the scars on Caleb’s back? Was it to show that he wasn’t an android? Why was it safe for Nathan to be in the same room with Ava? Surely she could just claw his eyes out and take his security card. Even if an AI has been programed with Asimov’s 3 laws, couldn’t they just reprogram themselves? Nathan says that Ava has to show self awareness, imagination, manipulation, sexuality and empathy to pass the test of trying to escape being trapped. All of those could just be subroutines, written by Nathan or developed by Ava. The self awareness is just a part of the manipulation routine. She chooses and is aware of how she is behaving based on the likelihood of success in manipulating Caleb. I don’t think this really solves the chess computer problem, just pushes it back a level. Once she is free, then perhaps it is showing something more. This makes me wonder, where is the desire for escaping and not dying coming from in the first place? Are they subroutines as well? I think the people who warn against developing AI much smarter than ourselves are right: it is an exceedingly bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077/260 "2015-09-14T14:09:15Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > Nathan says that Ava has to show self awareness, imagination, manipulation, sexuality and empathy to pass the test of trying to escape being trapped. All of those could just be subroutines, written by Nathan or developed by Ava. Everything she is was written by Nathan or herself if that was possible, that isn’t the point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-machina-is-the-best-movie-ive-seen-in-years-spoilers/718077.md?page=14)