# Ex-president terminology **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 11, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-president-terminology/249882 "2004-06-11T21:36:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-president-terminology/249882/21 "2004-06-12T13:18:47Z")
Okay, upon re-reading I think I need to modify a bit what I wrote earlier. Here’s what the _CMS_ (section 7.15) actually says: > [@](#): > > Civil, military, religious, and professional titles and titles of nobility are capitalized when they immediately precede a personal name, as part of the name: > > President Buchanan > Cardinal Newman > General Eisenhower > Prince Charles > > \ > > Note that when such titles are used in apposition to a name they are not part of the name and so are lowercased: > > the emperor Maximilian (i.e., the emperor who was Maximilian) > French president François Mitterand (_better:_ President François Mitterand of France So it would seem that in _CMS_ style, one _would_ refer correctly to “Prime Minister Blair,” but you would still say “British prime minister Tony Blair.” In the first case, “prime minister” is a title and capitalized as such. It goes on to add: > [@](#): > > [Sections 7.17-7.18]In text matter, titles following a personal name or used alone in place of a name are, with few exceptions, lowercased. > > \[e.g.] Frederick Lord North, prime minister of England; Lord North; the prime minister of England; the North ministry > > \ > > [Section 7.23] For sake of clarity, or perhaps unbreakable tradition, some British titles are capitalized when used without a personal name: > > Prince of Wales > Princess Royal > Queen Mother > Dame of Sark > > _but:_ prince consort > > British usage favors a more liberal use of capitals for titles than that recommended above. And I guess in at least one case, a more liberal use of no capitals. 😉 Having a quick look around, it appears that both [India](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp//articleshow/688163.cms) and [Australia](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/11/1086749902682.html?from=storylhs) use PM as a title. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-president-terminology/249882/22 "2004-06-12T13:37:39Z")
The only other British style guide I can find is that of the Times (far more conservative than the Guardian): > [@](#): > > President (of any country, also President of the European Commission), cap at first and all subsequent mentions when used as a variation for a specific person, eg, "George W. Bush said that … the President said that … "; “Richard Nixon was the President until 1974”. Lower case when using president more generally, eg, “Richard Nixon was the 37th president of the United States”… > > Prime Minister cap for every country, but only in reference to a specific person, eg, "Tony Blair said that … the Prime Minister said that … "; “Margaret Thatcher was the Prime Minister from 1979 to 1990”. Thus lower case when using prime minister more generally, eg, “Being prime minister has affected many men’s health”; “This is a prime minister with much still to prove”. … …which, as far as I can see, is actually more caps-happy than the CMS, giving us “British Prime Minister Tony Blair”. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-president-terminology/249882/23 "2004-06-12T13:38:58Z")
Oh, here’s the link: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2941-576,00.html](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2941-576,00.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-president-terminology/249882.md?page=1)