# Ex-Republican strategist: Republican Party conservatism was always a lie **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 23, 2020, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812 "2020-08-23T10:29:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/21 "2020-08-24T16:42:24Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > When Iran was caught paying bounties for attacks on American soldiers Obama responded by giving them billions. Seriously? This bullshit again? And by “bullshit” I mean “not true”. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/22 "2020-08-24T16:59:10Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > When Iran was caught paying bounties for attacks on American soldiers Obama responded by giving them billions. Please provide a cite for the claim that Obama’s response to the bounties was to give them billions. Are you forgetting that Russia is putting bounties on US Troops _right now_ and Trump’s response has been jack shit? In any case, I’ll forgive you if you don’t vote for Obama. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/23 "2020-08-24T18:27:08Z")
Not true. Even Colin Powell says it’s nonsense. > **[Colin Powell Accuses Media of 'Hysterical' Bounty Coverage on MSNBC](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/retired-general-colin-powell-accuses-media-of-almost-hysterical-coverage-of-russia-taliban-bounty-program-it-got-kind-of-out-of-control/)** > > Colin Powell accuses media of 'almost hysterical' coverage of Russia-Taliban bounty program: 'It got kind of out of control' Everybody thinks it’s nonsense: > **[Top US general in the Middle East skeptical that Russian bounties led to...](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/07/07/top-us-general-in-the-middle-east-skeptical-that-russian-bounties-led-to-troops-deaths/)** > > The top U.S. general for the Middle East said Tuesday that the intelligence suggesting that Russia may have paid Taliban militants to kill American troops in Afghanistan was worrisome, but he is not convinced that any bounties resulted in U.S.... ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/24 "2020-08-24T18:56:49Z")
Neither one of your articles says it wasn’t true, so please try again. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/25 "2020-08-24T20:34:40Z")
How do you prove a negative? Our intelligence agencies can only determine if there is evidence to support the claim and so far there isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/26 "2020-08-24T20:51:14Z")
Your articles didn’t say that it wasn’t true, not happening, or nonsense. The first one said it was overblown and the second says it may not have resulted in any actual fatalities. Neither one said it was false. You claimed Russia wasn’t doing this and provided two articles that didn’t make that claim. The US intelligence services say it was happening. I believe them over you. You also claimed that Obama rewarded Iran with billions of dollars for putting bounties on our soldiers heads. I don’t believe that is true either. You also argued against a straw man from the article, claiming that the writer of the article thinks that the GOP is now pro-abortion (who is pro-abortion, anyway?), anti-gun, and wants to increase taxes. Arguing against a straw man is a pretty poor debating technique. Unless you start bringing more substance to this discussion, I’m done. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/27 "2020-08-24T20:57:59Z")
> **[The Obama Administration's $1.7 Billion Iranian Deception](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-obama-administrations-1-7-billion-iranian-deception)** > > In 2016, the Obama administration transferred $1.7 billion to Iran. Learn why this classified deal changed the narrative of Obama's office. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/28 "2020-08-24T21:02:50Z")
If I steal your wallet containing $1000 and then I return the wallet with its contents intact, did I give you $1000? ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/29 "2020-08-24T21:03:41Z")
Yes there are liberals who are pro-abortion > **[Watch: Michelle Wolf performs a "Salute to Abortion" on The Break](https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/7/9/17550056/michelle-wolf-salute-to-abortion-the-break-supreme-court)** > > "If women embrace the fact that they control life, that makes it a lot harder for men to control women." ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/30 "2020-08-24T21:05:52Z")
Democrat Presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were both involved in creating the fund to pay victims of Iranian terror. Obama gave it all away. > **[Why U.S. Taxpayers Paid Victims of Iranian Attacks](https://www.newsweek.com/iran-nuclear-deal-terrorism-victims-families-stephen-flatow-barack-obama-418770)** > > A side agreement to the Iran nuclear deal has reopened wounds for the families of victims and former hostages. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/31 "2020-08-24T21:11:32Z")
I thought this thread was about the GOP, but I see that there is an earnest effort underway to change the subject. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/32 "2020-08-24T21:18:52Z")
Michelle Wolf is pro-choice, not pro-abortion. This is a clear falsehood, which I will say is down to your misreading of the article. Now, I’m definitely done. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/33 "2020-08-24T21:35:20Z")
Among the things that US taxpayers got was a multi-party agreement, backed by US allies, that Iran would not continue to develop their nuclear program. The victims had long ago been paid. The agreement was to prevent countless possible other victims of a nuclear armed Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/34 "2020-08-25T00:08:00Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > Democrat Presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were both involved in creating the fund to pay victims of Iranian terror. Obama gave it all away. Nope… > **[Analysis | Was Obama’s $1.7 billion cash deal with Iran prohibited by U.S. law?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/03/01/was-obamas-1-7-billion-cash-deal-with-iran-prohibited-by-u-s-law/)** > > The Fact Checker was challenged on Twitter. So we rechecked the facts. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/35 "2020-08-25T00:41:39Z")
After a lifetime of this Republican bullshit passed without notice I am astounded people have finally woken up. There are no fiscal conservatives, no cultural conservatives, no religious conservatives, there are just racists who hate the very notion of freedom for anyone but themselves. They would rather destroy this nation instead of living as equals among people they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/36 "2020-08-25T01:11:46Z")
What does that make those of us who didn’t vote for Reagan, didn’t vote for Bush, and didn’t vote for Trump? Chopped liver? If I _do_ buy into the philosophy of conservatism - if I am against change by default - but in practice I don’t support Republican policies, does that mean I am not really conservative? I will admit that it amounts to a form of no-true-Scotsman logic, but that isn’t a fallacy if it is true. And by claiming that conservatives are largely hypocrites in practice, you are sort of legitimizing my opinion that _I’m_ not the problem, and _they_ are. You don’t get to bash all of us at the same time. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/37 "2020-08-25T01:17:58Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > I know there are a few principled conservatives out there, but they should probably give up on calling themselves Republicans at this point. There’s more to the Republican party than the presidential election, especially in closed-primary states. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/38 "2020-08-25T01:19:10Z")
If you haven’t voted for any of the conservative banner carriers in our lifetimes, then my first instinct would be to think about whether to call yourself a conservative at all. But then you say this [quote=“Max\_S, post:36, topic:918812, full:true”]If I _do_ buy into the philosophy of conservatism - if I am against change by default [/quote] There’s no virtuous reason for such a default. It might be a less outwardly hateful form of conservatism, but it nevertheless feeds the base principle of American conservatism: The preservation of the power of the status quo hierarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/39 "2020-08-25T01:26:38Z")
It’s my way of forward-thinking. Before a change is made, I want to make sure it’s better than what we have already. In my own words, conservatism is this cautious aproach to politics which literally has the tendency to conserve the existing status quo. I will abandon the principle in extreme situations, but I prefer not to. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/40 "2020-08-25T01:31:50Z")
Unless you are in the privileged group at the top of the hierarcy, America has never not been in an extreme situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812.md?page=3)