# Ex-Republican strategist: Republican Party conservatism was always a lie **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 23, 2020, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812 "2020-08-23T10:29:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/122 "2020-08-31T04:43:49Z")
I’m sure the Republican assholes can come up with lots of women who are uncomfortable when Biden is on their TeeVee set, and complain about that. “He invaded my personal living room space” Pathetic Garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/123 "2020-08-31T04:55:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You are aware, I hope that there is no actual GOP platform for this current election cycle. Well, there is one - it is the 2016 platform which was re-adopted. I [am](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/918812/66) aware, yes. We all can see the irony in the platform referring to Obama as the “current president”, when many of the same criticisms apply to current-president Trump. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/124 "2020-08-31T12:15:20Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > 8 women have accused Biden of sexual assault. This is a falsehood, which I assume you posted because you were misinformed by your news sources. Please provide cites or retract this. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/125 "2020-08-31T17:10:49Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > Lied about marching for civil rights. Can you name any politician who _never_ lied while campaigning? ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/126 "2020-08-31T17:38:41Z")
IMHO that Republican conservatism was always a lie is obvious. What I don’t get is why the people being lied to, in particular working class white people, were and still are eager to believe the lies. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/127 "2020-08-31T17:55:11Z")
Because they’re being told what they want to believe is true, and it conforms with beliefs that they already hold. The truth contradicts what they want to believe, so they think it’s false. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/128 "2020-08-31T18:26:43Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Trump can’t keep track of all his lies, but the internet can. Lied about this. Lied about that. Lie, lie, lie. Here’s what’s so amazing about Trump lying; it’s SO common and so ingrained, that we might not actually realize when he’s telling the truth, if indeed he ever does. He just makes shit up most of the time, so if he was to actually tell the truth, I doubt too many people would believe it. That’s pretty much a 180 degree turn from most politicians who don’t lie as constantly or just make shit up from whole cloth like he does. I mean, it really is astounding just how factually wrong some of what he says is. I keep thinking that if ANYONE was as full of shit as he is at ANY workplace I’ve ever been at, they’d get shitcanned super-fast. No management would tolerate that level of deception, mistruth and outright fabrications. Nobody I know would be friends with someone who acted like that either. And yet, somehow an entire political party and roughly half the country think this is GOOD, and the best way to go forward? The mind boggles… ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/129 "2020-08-31T19:19:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Plagiarism? Dunno; hard to plagiarize when you can’t read. Cheated on his current wife. Hell, he’s cheated on all three of his wives. Speaking of cheating, has Trump ever submitted homework or passed a test that someone else didn’t write for him? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/130 "2020-09-01T00:44:59Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Can you name any politician who _never_ lied while campaigning? George Washington and John Adams. They didn’t “campaign” at all, and thus couldn’t have lied while doing so. (Properties of the empty set.) TJ also was reluctant to campaign. After that, business as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/131 "2020-09-01T02:04:24Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Here’s what’s so amazing about Trump lying; it’s SO common and so ingrained, that we might not actually realize when he’s telling the truth, if indeed he ever does. Someone posted, maybe here, maybe elsewhere… They knew a guy who lied like Trump. Lied all the time, about EVERYthing. He lied about stuff that didn’t even matter. He (like Trump) was a complete pathological liar. The guy would say he was going to have lunch at Burger King, and promptly to to Wendy’s. He could not help but lie about Every. Single. Thing. This is Trump. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/132 "2020-09-01T15:21:47Z")
None that won. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/133 "2020-09-01T15:53:01Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s pretty much a 180 degree turn from most politicians who don’t lie as constantly or just make shit up from whole cloth like he does. I mean, it really is astounding just how factually wrong some of what he says is. Most politicians lie about things that may or may not be found out later; Trump lies about things that he is seen and heard doing by millions of people. That’s the difference. It’s gas lighting. Deception is often a _defensive_ act: people who to conceal the truth are defending their reputations and their version of a story. Gas lighting, on the other hand, is aggression. It’s someone’s way of telling you: fuck the truth, and fuck you too. The truth does not matter. You have no right to truth. Truth is what _I_ say it is. > And yet, somehow an entire political party and roughly half the country think this is GOOD, and the best way to go forward? The mind boggles… He is an avatar president. People who know Trump know who he is. They don’t care, and they don’t care because they think they can use him for their own benefit. He reveals the ugly stain that is probably half this country’s population. That’s probably an ugly thing for me to say about people, many of whom probably do have some good qualities, but it’s uglier still to be the victim of their ugliness. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/134 "2020-09-01T16:39:45Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > What I don’t get is why the people being lied to, in particular working class white people, were and still are eager to believe the lies. Honest guess here - it’s the liars or nobody. The average conservative-and-moral layman has _nobody_ who supports their ethics and ideals. As has been mentioned, there are no politicians who _actually_ oppose abortion, or support gun owners. Small government? Fiscal responsibility? (Okay, for the last you can go Dem.) If you’re a good person who thinks that fetuses have souls at conception and that millions of babies are being murdered each year, then that’s more important than everything else. You _cannot_ support a politician who doesn’t want to execute abortion doctors. So what are your choices? 1. Accept that all politicians support baby murder and you can do nothing. 2. Believe that there’s _somebody_ you can vote for to try and do the right thing and stop the baby murder. Better to believe a blatant, outrageous lie than to have to face the fact that the world is out of your control. (This is the same kind of thinking that generates conspiracy theories - another republican staple.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/135 "2020-09-01T17:24:13Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Honest guess here - it’s the liars or nobody. The average conservative-and-moral layman has _nobody_ who supports their ethics and ideals. As has been mentioned, there are no politicians who _actually_ oppose abortion, or support gun owners. Small government? Fiscal responsibility? (Okay, for the last you can go Dem.) > > If you’re a good person who thinks that fetuses have souls at conception and that millions of babies are being murdered each year, then that’s more important than everything else. You _cannot_ support a politician who doesn’t want to execute abortion doctors. So what are your choices? > > 1. Accept that all politicians support baby murder and you can do nothing. > 2. Believe that there’s _somebody_ you can vote for to try and do the right thing and stop the baby murder. > > Better to believe a blatant, outrageous lie than to have to face the fact that the world is out of your control. Maybe even more basic, vote for the liar who at least tells you **you** don’t have to give up on saying that’s what you believe. Even if he does not deliver what he promised you, he tells you **you** do not have to stop saying how you think things should be and what people you think are undesirable. A lot of the WWC Trump followers know they are screwed by the system, and they will continue to be so under his management, but they’d rather deal with that and embrace the suck, than be told that on top of _that_ they also have to not just tolerate but _celebrate_ changes in what the society values that they perceive as devaluating _them_. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/136 "2020-09-01T17:42:32Z")
Well, I was talking about the theoretical conservative-and-moral person. They wouldn’t be forced to give up their beliefs that they’re better then others, because as people theorized to have morals they don’t hold such beliefs. People who follow republicans because they’re racist pieces of shit are in a different category from people who hate baby murder or love guns - the current republican party has started to say the quiet part out loud and _overtly_ support their racist agendas. They are ecstatic and have every reason to be - they are _actually_ represented by their government, and the government is _actually_ trying to accomplish their desired agenda. This makes them categorically different from the dupes described by the phrase “every american conservative who makes the world a better place” - the promises to them are being kept! This also applies to people who are republican because they wish to make more money at the cost of the other people/the world/human survival. Not every republican is a hapless dupe. Just all the ones that don’t suck. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/137 "2020-09-01T21:08:33Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > What I don’t get is why the people being lied to, in particular working class white people, were and still are eager to believe the lies. I’ve not studied it but it probably coincides with the white working class’s opinion of globalization, which has soured in recent years - something that Trump picked up before the rest of his party did and why he was able to beat his entire field of established Republican political veterans. It also explained why he defeated Clinton. Trump’s messaging on globalization was two things: 1) fuck the rest of the world, particularly the non-European world; and 2) fuck the academic and business elites who defend this system. From white working class point of view, their economic plight had two sources: foreigners coming into the country and also foreigners working outside of it - again, particularly non-white ones. And the elites were sitting there telling them how wonderful globalization and diversity was for their town that just saw its last manufacturing job leave. Democrats were the ones who were cautious about globalization and global trade’s dark side for exploitation by corporate executives, but they embraced cultural exchange and the exchange of ideas and exposure to different sets of values. Trump saw long before others did that ‘real’ America was fed up with that shit. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/138 "2020-09-01T21:47:37Z")
Even with scare quotes, even ironically, I’m sick of seeing and hearing this group (a minority of Americans) labeled as “real.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/139 "2020-09-02T14:19:23Z")
Going back to the thread title, yes, conservatism was always a lie. And that’s because American conservatism has nothing good to offer: if you have to lie to sell your ideas, it’s not a good ideology. They lied the same way that Nigerian scammers lied about having a million dollars to give you for keeping their rich, deposed uncle’s money safe. Understand that there is a place for conservatism, which is at its best when it compensates for the excesses of liberalism. Conservatives should exist for those moments when we need someone to say, you can’t just artificially keep unemployment low with highways to nowhere a la Japan and planned cities with empty mega-malls and skyscrapers in the middle of nowhere a la China. Conservatives should be there to say, “Okay, kids, time to put up away that bag of dope and snap yourself back into reality.” Unfortunately, the conservatives of the last 40 years - and frankly conservatives since forever in this country - have existed to create an oligarchy. So they lie and tell Americans that if one percent has more wealth than nearly half the country combined, it’s because they’re just boot strappers who worked harder. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/140 "2020-09-02T14:50:02Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Going back to the thread title, yes, conservatism was always a lie. And that’s because American conservatism has nothing good to offer: if you have to lie to sell your ideas, it’s not a good ideology. They lied the same way that Nigerian scammers lied about having a million dollars to give you for keeping their rich, deposed uncle’s money safe. > > Understand that there is a place for conservatism, which is at its best when it compensates for the excesses of liberalism. Conservatives should exist for those moments when we need someone to say, you can’t just artificially keep unemployment low with highways to nowhere a la Japan and planned cities with empty mega-malls and skyscrapers in the middle of nowhere a la China. Conservatives should be there to say, “Okay, kids, time to put up away that bag of dope and snap yourself back into reality.” Except that this isn’t really conservative, and it’s not in opposition to liberalism. There’s no liberal value that says “pursue bad ideas that will produce bad outcomes in the long run” or “just do something that will temporarily cover up a problem and then create huge problems in the future.” Those aren’t part of liberal ideology, opposing them isn’t conservative ideology. A liberal doesn’t become conservative by saying “no, that’s a bad idea.” ---
**Author:** ![Skunkdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Skunkdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skunkdog)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/141 "2020-09-02T19:46:58Z")
I found an old book in a used book store a few years ago written in the late 60’s by Spiro Agnew, Nixon’s first vice-president and a convicted tax evader. It was your standard “This is what I believe” screed written like an extended campaign speech. I was amazed at how many things were exactly the same as current GOP slogans. Lower taxes, less government and fewer regulations were the big takeaways, but there were also things about good American family values that wouldn’t be in vogue until the Republicans joined with Evangelicals to create the Moral Majority movement over a decade later. It just surprises me that in 50 years their platform has remained virtually unchanged… except loving Russia now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812.md?page=8)