# Ex-Republican strategist: Republican Party conservatism was always a lie **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 23, 2020, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812 "2020-08-23T10:29:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/142 "2020-09-02T19:53:42Z")
Yeah, I don’t think the headline items of the conservative agenda have changed all that much in half a century. It’s just that they are increasingly unpopular (if ever so slowly), conservatives are no longer an overpowering majority in the country and they have decided to go all in from every conceivable retroactive angle in opposing progressivism. If that means subverting fair democratic representation and the GOP leadership grifting the odd billion or ten, that’s still less “harmful” to the country than “socialism.” We’re still decades from burying this point of view. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/143 "2020-09-02T20:00:27Z")
There’s also the fact that “lower taxes” means a different thing when the top marginal tax rate is in the 70’s or 80’s, rather than the 30’s it is now. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/144 "2020-09-02T20:15:25Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump’s messaging on globalization was two things: 1) fuck the rest of the world, particularly the non-European world; and 2) fuck the academic and business elites who defend this system. **From white working class point of view, their economic plight had two sources: foreigners coming into the country and also foreigners working outside of it - again, particularly non-white ones.** And the elites were sitting there telling them how wonderful globalization and diversity was for their town that just saw its last manufacturing job leave. Let’s start with the premise that these beliefs are incorrect. I doubt that the Mexican picking strawberries or washing dishes in a restaurant for less than minimum wage are responsible for the economic plight of the white working class. I doubt that some poor woman making t-shirts in Vietnam for a dollar a day is responsible for the economic plight of the white working class. It seems to me that the economic plight of the white working class is because their boss’s boss’s boss is a rich, billionaire, asshole who prefers to keep the vast majority of the company profits to themselves and the stockholders rather than rewarding the workers, as opposed to the individuals I mentioned. To me it seems obvious that say, a coal miner in West Virginia for example, has more blame to lay on someone like Don Blankenship for their economic plight than they do on some poor undocumented immigrant working the fields. > **[Don Blankenship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Blankenship)** > > Donald Leon Blankenship (born March 14, 1950) is an American business executive, political candidate, and convicted criminal. He was chairman and CEO of the Massey Energy Company—the sixth-largest coal company (by 2008 production) in the United States—from 2000 until 2010 when an explosion at Massey's Upper Big Branch Mine resulted in the death of 29 workers. He was imprisoned for 1 year for conspiring to violate federal mine safety standards. > On December 3, 2015, Blankenship was found guilty ... Again, the question is why they still insist on laying the blame where it doesn’t belong. Yes, the obvious answer is racism. In a vacuum, it’s easy to understand why they might prefer their white boss. But when it’s obvious that it’s their white boss that is screwing them over but they insist on ignoring that fact, and then wonder why things don’t get better when the blame is placed on scapegoats, I have to wonder if these people are SO racist that they would work against their own best interests despite their racism. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/145 "2020-09-03T01:48:16Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > There’s also the fact that “lower taxes” means a different thing when the top marginal tax rate is in the 70’s or 80’s, rather than the 30’s it is now. Lower. Lower. Always lower. If the top marginal tax rate was 1%, the Republicans would be screaming to reduce it to 0.2% ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/146 "2020-09-03T01:55:14Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I have to wonder if these people are SO racist that they would work against their own best interests despite their racism. In a word: yes. The coal mining dude would be happy to feed his family a rat on a stick, as long as the black family on the next block has no rat and no stick. It does not enter his mind that as his kid is dying of malnutrition the boss is rolling in cash. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/147 "2020-09-03T02:37:44Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The coal mining dude would be happy to feed his family a rat on a stick, as long as the black family on the next block has no rat and no stick. He has been told repeatedly that the black guy on the next block is a violent thug who’d rob him of his rat first chance he gets. And that in a world where his boss doesn’t get to roll in cash he won’t be allowed to own sticks. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_McCabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@Earl\_McCabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_McCabe)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/148 "2020-09-03T02:38:48Z")
Actual conservatives have known this since at least Bob Taft. Hawks like this guy are just upset that Trump has made it marginally harder for them to use the Republican Party as a vessel for eternal war. The Democratic ticket is much more promising on that note, so you will see more of this type of thing. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/149 "2020-09-03T16:40:35Z")
If it were 1%, they’d be screaming that it should be -35%, because we should pay the wealthy for the privilege of having them in our country. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/150 "2020-09-03T17:17:10Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > He has been told repeatedly that the black guy on the next block is a violent thug who’d rob him of his rat first chance he gets. > And that in a world where his boss doesn’t get to roll in cash he won’t be allowed to own sticks. True enough. My question is why does he believe that shit when it is obviously false. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/151 "2020-09-03T17:44:11Z")
Because it makes him feel better about his own worthless life. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/152 "2020-09-03T19:19:54Z")
Maybe I’m just a poor student of human nature, but I don’t get why that would help this hypothetical individual feel better. Especially in light of the fact that collectively these individuals have the power to change their situation in real ways that would help, and simply refuse to do so. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/153 "2020-09-03T20:29:40Z")
Hey, you’re preaching to the Archbishop on that one, bro. Coal minors were handed the opportunity for train for new industries at little to no cost to themselves, because the industry they had been working was in full cardiac arrest and the doctors were about to call time-of-death. So what do they do? They opt to vote for a guy who said “Screw that, you don’t need no education, we’ll just resurrect a moribund industry just so you don’t have to go to school. The fact that you know as well as I do that this doesn’t have a chance in hell of working, that this is going to be a billion-dollar jerk-off, really doesn’t matter, does it? It’ll make the liberals cry and that’s what we both want, right?” This is what Republican Party conservatism has become, if not what it always to some extent has been: **Let’s see how hard we can screw The Other Guy.** ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/154 "2020-09-03T20:55:46Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Especially in light of the fact that collectively these individuals have the power to change their situation in real ways that would help, and simply refuse to do so Those in power are well practiced in the art of pitting the underlings against one another for the crumbs. > [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Coal minors were handed the opportunity for train for new industries at little to no cost to themselves, because the industry they had been working was in full cardiac arrest and the doctors were about to call time-of-death. > > So what do they do? They opt to vote for a guy who said “Screw that, you don’t need no education, we’ll just resurrect a moribund industry just so you don’t have to go to school. To the type of old-school working man, for whom what he does is part of his identity and knows not else, how do you think that sounded? : _“YOU: Change.”_ That’s where the demagogues come in saying: “Oh, no no, YOU don’t have to change YOUR ways at all! There is nothing wrong with the way you are used to living/working, you don’t need to learna new one.” , And they respond because though deep down they know they will continue to get screwed, at least it’s the screwing (and the screwers) they _know_ and have adapted to. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/155 "2020-09-03T21:23:17Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > **To the type of old-school working man, for whom what he does is part of his identity and knows not else, how do you think that sounded? : _“YOU: Change.”_** > That’s where the demagogues come in saying: “Oh, no no, YOU don’t have to change YOUR ways at all! There is nothing wrong with the way you are used to living/working, you don’t need to learna new one.” , And they respond because though deep down they know they will continue to get screwed, at least it’s the screwing (and the screwers) they _know_ and have adapted to. Again, and I’m asking sincerely, I understand that’s how it sounds to these voters, whether coal miners in West Virginia, steel workers in western Pennsylvania, auto workers in Michigan, etc. What I don’t get is why they consider that a bad thing, when it’s obvious what the benefits of changing and the drawbacks of keeping things the same are. Yes, they are being lied to, but in order to believe those lies, they have to, for whatever reason, be receptive to the message. That’s what I don’t get. Why are all these groups predisposed to believing the lie that what’s good for the millionaires is good for them. ETA: I’ll take myself as an example. I’m a physician. If tomorrow someone invented a medical hologram in the style of the doctor from Star Trek Voyager, I’d be out of a job. If someone then told me I had to change and train for a different job, I’d ask them where do I sign up for this training? I wouldn’t insist that things really hadn’t changed and try to screw over the people in favor of implementing the new technology. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/156 "2020-09-03T21:43:26Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > To me it seems obvious that say, a coal miner in West Virginia for example, has more blame to lay on someone like Don Blankenship for their economic plight than they do on some poor undocumented immigrant working the fields. I have always thought the miners of West Virginia voted for Trump because they really didn’t want to vote for Hillary (or more of Obama). That’s not to say Trump’s Mexican and Muslim rhetoric had no effect, but I think you are doing a disservice to those people by writing pure racism into the hypothetical West Virginian’s mind. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/157 "2020-09-03T21:49:57Z")
I don’t think you would be able to wrap your mind around it, **Filk the Blue**. It requires a different way to look upon the world and the self and at what to do about it, a different way to process the input you receive from it – and “populist-conservative” propaganda is targeted at the person who already has that trait. > [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > What I don’t get is why they consider that a bad thing, when it’s obvious what the benefits of changing and the drawbacks of keeping things the same are. “The devil you know.”: > [@JRDelirious](#): > > And they respond because **though deep down they know they will continue to get screwed, at least it’s the screwing (and the screwers) they _know_ and have adapted to.** They see the risk of things going wrong _in ways they can’t comprehend_ as worse than the certainty of things continuing to be bad in ways they at least think they recognize. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/158 "2020-09-04T14:20:14Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Yes, they are being lied to, but in order to believe those lies, they have to, for whatever reason, be receptive to the message. That’s what I don’t get. Why are all these groups predisposed to believing the lie that what’s good for the millionaires is good for them. …because they’re ignorant. They live in a world of perceived scarcity. That’s why they get outraged over the national debt, over welfare queens, over foreigners ‘taking our jobs.’ The Republicans also understand tribalism. They understand that if you can make an emotional connection on things like religion and supporting the troops, then you’re more likely to reach their minds in other ways. Republicans win with tribalism and emotion, which is often the opposite of fact-based logic and reality. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/159 "2020-09-04T14:32:24Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > They live in a world of perceived scarcity. This. It is a recent development in the history of humanity that there is not just enough to go around, but more than enough to go around. Most of our miserable history was living in a negative sum game, anything that someone else got was something that was taken from you. War, for instance, was inevitable. It was both the consequence and the solution to overpopulation. Now that we live in the potential for a positive sum game, some people have trouble making that adjustment. The idea that someone else getting something actually means more for you just doesn’t grok for some people. War is now a choice, and it rarely, if ever, results in increased resources for the belligerents, even if they win. Having an overabundance of production does not automatically put us into a positive sum game. What is also required is for the majority of the players to be playing by those rules. If too many play by negative sum game rules, then it becomes one. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/160 "2020-09-04T14:59:31Z")
Good post, K9. I’ll add that this goes beyond zero-sum survival; it’s also a matter of perceived zero-sum in terms of living standards. They see an increase in immigration, and with this, they perceive an increase in the clout of immigrants (including some who don’t play by “the rules”). They see gains made by women and minorities; meanwhile, they’re losing factory jobs and dying of chronic disease, alcoholism, and opioid overdoses. As Noam Chomsky put it, white America is dying, and they’re angry. They believe that their losses are someone else’s gains, and Trump promised to make ‘the other’ pay, to even the score. But my sense is that, if they’re being truly honest, they’d reveal that they don’t really want equality or a score that’s even; they want to be better than equal. They believe that America is a white man’s country first and that white standards are the values that others should live by, and that they should be first in line at the buffet. I don’t mean to suggest that these are hardcore racist people we’re talking about; it’s just the country and culture they’ve grown up in. The local mayor’s always been white. The school teachers have always been white. The richest people in town are white. The police are white. The church pastors are white. The local business community is white. The guy on the news is white. This is what it’s been - or the way it was until…frickin ‘equality’! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812/161 "2020-09-04T15:44:55Z")
It’s less that White America is dying, and more that America is growing up. Many of us are sad to see our childhood’s end, and are nostalgic for those days when the world seemed brighter, and things were simpler. One of the reasons that they want to “take things back” is not to take them back to a time when things were better for the nation as a whole, but to a time when things were better for _them_, and specifically, when they were children, and their parents were the ones that dealt with all the complicated issues, making them think that there just weren’t any. There is no objective measure that we are not far better off than we were in the 50’s and 60’s. Losing a factory job is a _good_ thing, factory jobs suck. They are dangerous and monotonous, and paying someone a living wage for a job that a robot can do increases the cost of production. Downside is if someone really wants a factory job, rather than a different one. Other downside is if society is not willing to invest in its populace to prepare people for those better ones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ex-republican-strategist-republican-party-conservatism-was-always-a-lie/918812.md?page=9)