# Exactly when did the Beatles begin to revolutionize rock? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 26, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419 "2012-07-26T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/21 "2012-07-26T20:55:51Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Okay, they were a hardworking cover band before they reinvented themselves as a boy band. The Beatles were never a boy band. Sheesh. They were popular with teenagers but that alone does not a boy band make. Heck, Jim Morrison was on the cover of Tiger Beat during the Doors’ heyday - does that make them a boy band? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/22 "2012-07-26T20:56:12Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Buddy Holly was way ahead of them on this score. > > He hit with his own “[That’ll Be the Day](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That%27ll_Be_the_Day)” in 1957. > > He was also ahead of the Beatles in being involved on the production side. Well, the Beatles themselves idolized Holly- their very name was a tribute to the Crickets. John Lennon sang Holly’s "Words of Love " on the \*\*\*Beatles for Sale \*\*\*album, and “Peggy Sue” on his solo \*\*\*Rock and Roll \*\*\*album. Meanwhile, Paul McCartney bought up Holly’s song catalogue. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/23 "2012-07-26T21:26:12Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > When McCartney wrote down “Yesterday”. > > Before that they were just a wildly popular boy band. “Yesterday” was the first indication that they were capable of much, much more, and Lennon and Harrison both rose to the new high bar that McCartney had set. I see that song as the first glimpse into Macca’s saccharine and banal aesthetic. Muzak to my ears. Gimme Lennon any day over that cheesy sap. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/24 "2012-07-26T21:28:35Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > The Beatles as performers were adequate, but not exceptional or revolutionary. > > It was the songwriting, particularly the Lennon/McCartney compositions that went significantly beyond the terribly common three- and four-chord patterns, that broke into new territory. And we’re not talking about one or two differently formed songs (as some others had done before, here and there), but a whole catalog of them, dozens and dozens, one hit after another. They blended pop sensibility with blues/rock edge in a unique way that commanded attention and proved immensely popular. > > I don’t think it can be distilled into a single moment. There was a continuum of increasing innovation that grew into epic proportion. Identifying one key turning point would be like trying to define the precise instant when a tidal wave was formed – it defies that degree of precision. And just as with a tidal wave, there comes a time when one can see its power, and one can certainly see the effects it has wrought. By all accounts they were unbelievably exciting performers, up until they could no longer be heard. Ask anyone who saw them prior to 1963-1964. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/25 "2012-07-26T21:29:36Z")
1965, Dylan, ganja. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/26 "2012-07-26T21:29:51Z")
> [@Docta\_G](#): > > I see that song as the first glimpse into Macca’s saccharine and banal aesthetic. Muzak to my ears. > > Gimme Lennon any day over that cheesy sap. I tend to agree, although Macca wrote some great tunes, too. I just never could get into “Yesterday” or “Hey Jude” or any of those kinds of McCartney songs. For the earlier stuff, “All My Loving” and “Things We Said Today” are among my favorite Beatles tunes. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/27 "2012-07-26T21:29:57Z")
Sgt. Peppers IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/28 "2012-07-26T21:34:25Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Sgt. Peppers IMHO. I think Sgt. Peppers is way late. I think by _Help!_ they were expanding the vocabulary of rock–you can catch glimpses of it even as early as _With the Beatles!_. But as far as a full-out revolutionary album, _Rubber Soul_ would be my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/29 "2012-07-26T21:34:42Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > “Revolver” If you want to name a particular album I’d say it was _Rubber Soul_, the first studio-only album (after they had stopped touring and performing live). The fact that they didn’t need stage versions of the songs allowed them to experiment more. It was the beginning of their move toward psychedelia, for instance with the use of sitar in “Norwegian Wood”. The intermediary stage between _Rubber Soul_ and _Revolver_ might also be a good place to pinpoint, specifically the single “Paperback Writer”/“Rain”, which is said to be their first single that wasn’t about love/relationships (or perhaps _the_ first such rock single, which I am extremely dubious about), backed with what is said to be the first pop/rock song to use reversed tape loops. But I was actually completely serious with my first reply - I think the experimentation with sound really did begin with including those 5 (or 6, perhaps) seconds of amplifier feedback in “I Feel Fine”. That seems to have been the first time they did something really revolutionary. I don’t think they were just an average or ordinary band before that, but I would say they never really pushed boundaries up to that point. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/30 "2012-07-26T21:35:15Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I think Sgt. Peppers is way late. I think by _Help!_ they were expanding the vocabulary of rock–you can catch glimpses of it even as early as _With the Beatles!_. But as far as a full-out revolutionary album, _Rubber Soul_ would be my vote. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/31 "2012-07-26T21:37:37Z")
Prior to the Beatles, rock and roll was considered to be an “American” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/32 "2012-07-26T21:43:48Z")
I’m going to hop on board the Rubber Soul bandwagon. That one really ushered in the psychedelic 60s. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/33 "2012-07-26T21:46:38Z")
> [@Docta\_G](#): > > 1965, Dylan, ganja. I’m with Dylan in that I also hear the lyrics as “I get high, I get high”. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/34 "2012-07-26T21:47:19Z")
\*Rubber Soul \*was released in December 1965; the Beatles stopped touring in August 1966. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/35 "2012-07-26T22:32:52Z")
> [@Ms\_Boods](#): > > \*Rubber Soul \*was released in December 1965; the Beatles stopped touring in August 1966. And they did do a couple of the _Rubber Soul_ songs in concert: “Nowhere Man” and “If I Needed Someone.” The most recent song they ever played live (prior to the rooftop concert, of course) was “Paperback Writer.” ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/36 "2012-07-26T23:42:48Z")
> [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > But I was actually completely serious with my first reply - I think the experimentation with sound really did begin with including those 5 (or 6, perhaps) seconds of amplifier feedback in “I Feel Fine”. That seems to have been the first time they did something really revolutionary. I don’t think they were just an average or ordinary band before that, but I would say they never really pushed boundaries up to that point. Yeah, this is the moment (as much as there could be just one). The Beatles had already established themselves as top-flight performers and songwriters, but as others have noted, they were hardly the first to do those things. “I Feel Fine” was their coming out party as a band intent on pushing the envelope with their recordings as much as their live work. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/37 "2012-07-27T00:24:28Z")
I was debating Rubber Soul but despite some quintessential Beatle’s songs on there, and a glimpse of what would come, the overall tone feels more folk-rock than the stuff the started to explore on Revolver and IMHO perfected with Pepper’s. And was on the fence between Revolver and Peppers. Some of my favorite Beatle’s tunes are on all three of the aforementioned (not all that much of a fan of their earlier stuff, I like them better when they were on drugs 😉 ), yet Revolver seems like the transition album into their latter stuff. Ultimately, I have to give it to Pepper’s for starting the foundation of music they began to write that would go on to this day to become a major influence in Rock up to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/38 "2012-07-27T00:35:08Z")
> [@Ms\_Boods](#): > > \*Rubber Soul \*was released in December 1965; the Beatles stopped touring in August 1966. > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > And they did do a couple of the _Rubber Soul_ songs in concert: “Nowhere Man” and “If I Needed Someone.” The most recent song they ever played live (prior to the rooftop concert, of course) was “Paperback Writer.” Whoops. Thanks for the corrections! It would have been nothing short of amazing to see Nowhere Man or If I Needed Someone performed live. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/39 "2012-07-27T00:37:29Z")
Also, “A Day in the Life” has to be in the top 3 greatest rock songs of all time. Just sayin’ 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/40 "2012-07-27T01:08:39Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > And they did do a couple of the _Rubber Soul_ songs in concert: “Nowhere Man” and “If I Needed Someone.” The most recent song they ever played live (prior to the rooftop concert, of course) was “Paperback Writer.” Indeed – and it was playing especially Paperback Writer on their tour of Japan that was a contributing factor to the cessation of touring: because they couldn’t hear themselves, they’d got a bit sloppy, figuring if they messed up, no one would hear them for the screaming. But Japanese fans were relatively quiet and polite: realising they were headed for an embarrassing gaffe with ‘Paperback’ notice how they sabotage their own performance (George waves deliberately to get the girls screaming to cover up the bad harmonies): https://www.youtube.com/embed/7ILx-55EZNE?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419.md?page=3)