# Exactly when did the Beatles begin to revolutionize rock? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 26, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419 "2012-07-26T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/41 "2012-07-27T01:26:19Z")
> [@Ms\_Boods](#): > > …notice how they sabotage their own performance (George waves deliberately to get the girls screaming to cover up the bad harmonies): No. No, I don’t notice that in the least. Apart from a microphone issue at the start it sounds fine, for a live performance. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/42 "2012-07-27T01:38:19Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > Yeah, this is the moment (as much as there could be just one). The Beatles had already established themselves as top-flight performers and songwriters, but as others have noted, they were hardly the first to do those things. “I Feel Fine” was their coming out party as a band intent on pushing the envelope with their recordings as much as their live work. I can definitely get behind this. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/43 "2012-07-27T02:24:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Exactly when did the Beatles begin to revolutionize rock? The minute Lennon completed that ditty about the dude who keeps a ten bob note up his nose. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/44 "2012-07-27T02:43:18Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > The minute Lennon completed that ditty about the dude who keeps a ten bob note up his nose. > mmm Don’t be such a mean old man. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/45 "2012-07-27T04:32:47Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/46 "2012-07-27T05:35:30Z")
On **The Ed Sullivan Show**. They were apple-cheeked and lovable, but had low-rent Liverpool accents. They filled a void that had existed since Elvis went onto the Army and, upon release, stayed around Vegas and made crappy movies. Musically, they were unremarkable (although I thought **Rubber Soul** kind of elevated them). They were the prototype for boy bands to come, but they wrote their own songs, made controversial statements and did things that cost them a shitload of money, like shun endorsements and stop touring. They were of little interest to males and adults until they made **Sgt. Pepper**. After that, they were bulletproof (except for **Magical Mystery Tour** ). They made their mark as celebrities, not musicians. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/47 "2012-07-27T11:00:26Z")
[QUOTE=Krokodil] …They were of little interest to males and adults until they made **Sgt. Pepper** … [/QUOTE] You know this is utter cobblers right? Anyhow I’m in the **Rubber Soul** camp. Maybe you could push it back to I Feel Fine, or the opening chord of **Hard Day’s Night**. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/48 "2012-07-27T11:44:03Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Musically, they were unremarkable…They made their mark as celebrities, not musicians. Huh. They sure generated a _ **LOT** _ of comment, discussion, praise, and amazement for being “unremarkable.” And now I’d love to hear the explanation of how they transformed the pop music world by virtue of their celebrity rather than their musicianship. Are you pulling our legs, or are you really that blind to their musical contributions? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/49 "2012-07-27T12:07:56Z")
Aside from the question of when the revolutionized the music, _[A Hard Day’s Night](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058182/)_ was pretty revolutionary as a marketing device. Of course Elvis had made movies before that, but the lads were playing themselves, and dishing out large servings of charm and wit in the process. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/50 "2012-07-27T12:20:51Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Aside from the question of when the revolutionized the music, _[A Hard Day’s Night](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058182/)_ was pretty revolutionary as a marketing device. Of course Elvis had made movies before that, but the lads were playing themselves, and dishing out large servings of charm and wit in the process. To be fair, it wasn’t the Beatles who decided to do a movie; it was done by a producer who told Universal Pictures to do it. Universal didn’t like the idea and asked why they should. The producer said, “To sell the soundtrack album.” The movie was greenlit. The Beatles were talked about as soon as they hit the US and not just by teenaged girls. People like Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein, Leopold Stokowski, and Ned Rorem praised their music very early on, and it was unheard of for classical composers of that stature to say anything good about rock music. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/51 "2012-07-27T12:21:20Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Musically, they were unremarkable (although I thought **Rubber Soul** kind of elevated them). > > \ > > They made their mark as celebrities, not musicians. Wow. Are you a musician yourself? You glibly dismiss the music of a band generally held up as one of the most respected set of music creators of the recent century? Gotta anything worth stating to back that up? Sounds like sharp knees to me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/52 "2012-07-27T12:37:02Z")
I think the release of Paperback Writer/Rain was pretty revolutionary. This is was probably the most sophisticated 1-2 punch they had released in single form. From that point forward it was an avalanche of greatness-- with nary an appearance of a traditional love/relationship song til the brilliant “Something” in '69. Once they got away from the notion that rock n roll had to be about girls, break-ups, relationships, love and lust, it was a game-changer. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/53 "2012-07-27T13:23:52Z")
> [@Getcha Pilgrim Name Right Here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getcha-pilgrim-name-right-here/77375/24): > > People like Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein, Leopold Stokowski, and Ned Rorem praised their music very early on, and it was unheard of for classical composers of that stature to say anything good about rock music. Yeah, the idea that they were “musically unremarkable” just flabbergasts me. I can’t think of a single artist who contributed _more_ to the development of pop music and form than the Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/54 "2012-07-27T14:46:04Z")
I think there are two questions to be answered (for the OP); there’s not just one: When did the Beatles make it clear to people who knew music (for lack of better words) that they were revolutionary? When did everyone else realize it? I think Sgt Pepper fits the latter. That was knocking everyone over the head with the fact that this was historical (this being what the Beatles are doing and what they’ve done). But those who truly understood music could see it happening much earlier. . ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/55 "2012-07-27T14:48:17Z")
Even the members of the Fantastic Four [had Beatlemania](http://crossover.bureau42.com/zfabfanfour.html). ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/56 "2012-07-27T15:13:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, the idea that they were “musically unremarkable” just flabbergasts me. I can’t think of a single artist who contributed _more_ to the development of pop music and form than the Beatles. When you run into this kind of statement, it’s always important to ask what the person dismissing the Beatles’ musicality considers “musically remarkable.” In my experience, nine times out of ten, they start going on about Yngwie Malmsteen and you can safely ignore them. (Kidding! …mostly :p) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/57 "2012-07-27T16:43:54Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > When did the Beatles make it clear to people who knew music (for lack of better words) that they were revolutionary? Interesting point. I mean, Love Me Do is bland and fun to giggle at from a “look where they came from” POV, but their very next single, Please Please Me - from a musician’s standpoint, the songcraft just jumps out immediately. The wordplay, the great intro and outro, the fact that every element is hooky, the harmony dual lead vocal - it is just \*perfectly \*crafted. And then She Loves You and I Want to Hold Your Hand? Songs crafted like that jump out immediately - no different that hearing Smokey Robinson’s songs - it was clear that this was very well-wrought songcraft from a mile away… Same thing, frankly, with the Monkees - they may have been pre-fab and built for a TV show, but when you hear a song like I’m a Believer, you know immediately that \*someone \*with great songcraft skills is supporting this band (in that case, Neil Diamond), and that the music was going to endure longer than just random pop trash… ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/58 "2012-07-27T18:25:29Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > The Beatles as performers were adequate, but not exceptional or revolutionary. > [@Docta\_G](#): > > By all accounts they were unbelievably exciting performers, up until they could no longer be heard. Ask anyone who saw them prior to 1963-1964. Okay, my comment didn’t do them justice. It may well be that their performance capabilities were a significant part of what brought them to the fore in their earlier years. What I was trying to express is that it was their songcraft rather than their performance ability that effected a revolution in music. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/59 "2012-07-27T19:24:40Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > On **The Ed Sullivan Show**. They were apple-cheeked and lovable, but had low-rent Liverpool accents. They filled a void that had existed since Elvis went onto the Army and, upon release, stayed around Vegas and made crappy movies. > > Musically, they were unremarkable (although I thought **Rubber Soul** kind of elevated them). They were the prototype for boy bands to come, but they wrote their own songs, made controversial statements and did things that cost them a shitload of money, like shun endorsements and stop touring. They were of little interest to males and adults until they made **Sgt. Pepper**. After that, they were bulletproof (except for **Magical Mystery Tour** ). They made their mark as celebrities, not musicians. Almost everything in the second paragraph is grossly false. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419/60 "2012-07-27T19:25:46Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Wow. Are you a musician yourself? > > You glibly dismiss the music of a band generally held up as one of the most respected set of music creators of the recent century? Gotta anything worth stating to back that up? Sounds like sharp knees to me. 😃 Sharp and tinny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exactly-when-did-the-beatles-begin-to-revolutionize-rock/629419.md?page=4)