# Examining claim of free energy **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 14, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819 "2016-08-14T19:40:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/1 "2016-08-14T19:40:57Z")
This guy was on Coast to Coast AM last night. He claims that he’s found a way to get free energy out of an electromagnetic machine. I’m distinctly skeptical of his motor, but I’m not a physicist, and I don’t know much about electromagnetism. I don’t have the knowledge necessary to fully evaluate his claims. All I really know is that such claims have a track record of not panning out. > [@](#): > > Physicists Have Always Said That Magnetism Isn’t a Source of Energy. Well, They’re Wrong! I’m Not The Only Guy To Say This - I’m Just The Guy Who Turned This Into A Practical Technology. What You’re About To Learn is Something That Has Been Hiding In Plain Sight For Over 170 Years As Well As Learning The 3 Most Important Principles, Which Includes Eliminating Back EMF From Your Motors And That Equals More Work For Less Energy. A FULL DISCLOSURE on my DC Motor has also been released!" > > REVEALED: Multiple methods to tap magnetism as a source of energy in electrical circuits while circumventing Lenz’s Law. > **[Magnetic Energy Secrets by Paul Babcock](http://magneticenergysecrets.com/)** > > Physicists claim that magnetism isn't energy and can't do work. Learn the powerful truth that will prove them wrong 100% of the time! Get both Part 1 & Part 2! Can somebody explain this for me in fairly simple language? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/2 "2016-08-14T19:57:48Z")
Sure, I’ll give it a shot. So this guy, Paul Babcock, claims that all the physicists from the last 200 years, Maxwell, Watt, Einstein, Dirac, you name them, were completely wrong about magnetism and that you can actually do work with a magnetic field. Instead of using this knowledge building incredible machines that he could sell for millions of dollars, he promises to share the secrets with all comers for the low price of $39. I think that about sums it up. ---
**Author:** ![TipTapTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TipTapTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TipTapTwo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/3 "2016-08-14T20:17:42Z")
Remember Beakman from the ‘90s edutainment show Beakman’s World? He recently teamed up with Captain Disillusion (a youtube personality that debunks viral videos from an editing perspective) to do a video on just this topic, free energy from magnets, [BEAKMALLUSION: Free Energy Devices - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT_bTnkwLuE) some choice quotes, 7:22-7:53 “opposite poles of two magnets attract. The closer they get to each other, the more the two magnetic fields interact, and potential energy increases. But once they snap together, all the energy dissipates as heat. You have to put in just as much work to pull them apart again. What about when the same poles of two magnets repel? It must take energy to push like that. Yeah, but who is doing the pushing? The magnets, or you?” 9:35-10:00 “When two magnets are close together it is not just their closest poles that are interacting, it is their magnetic fields as a whole. So in a set up like this **see perpetual motion device** the magnets are doing as much pulling as pushing. Try it for yourself and see that instead of spinning fast, the rotor gets stuck whenever the stator magnet is exactly halfway between each pair of rotor magnets. They lock together like the teeth of two invisible cogs.” To see what really happens when we recreate the device, see 9:46-10:00 To see how free energy charlatans can fool and misdirect the public, see 10:02-10:40 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/4 "2016-08-14T21:15:52Z")
You can be pretty sure that most of what you hear on Coast to Coast is a hoax, a fraud, or nuts. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/5 "2016-08-14T21:22:34Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > This guy was on Coast to Coast AM last night. That’s all the debunking you need to hear. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/6 "2016-08-14T21:45:40Z")
I stopped at “free energy.” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/7 "2016-08-14T22:24:24Z")
[Read this.](http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/noether.html) Tell us all how it’s completely and utterly wrong, to the point energy is _not_ conserved. If you can’t break either basic physics (_Newtonian_ physics, at that) or undergraduate calculus, and in so doing prove that either reality is logically inconsistent or every single physicist has missed something major for four centuries, there is no free energy. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/8 "2016-08-15T01:28:56Z")
> [@TipTapTwo](#): > > Remember Beakman from the ‘90s edutainment show Beakman’s World? He recently teamed up with Captain Disillusion (a youtube personality that debunks viral videos from an editing perspective) to do a video on just this topic, free energy from magnets, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT\_bTnkwLuE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT_bTnkwLuE) > 40 Screw bill nye! I love Beakman! ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/9 "2016-08-15T01:50:16Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > Screw bill nye! I love Beakman! It’s not a zero sum game. They’re both great! ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/10 "2016-08-15T01:57:31Z")
[Dr. Science](http://drscience.com/wordpress/) ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/11 "2016-08-15T02:14:09Z")
Reading through the claims on his website, I see stuff like > [@](#): > > I’ll show you how the same amount of metered electricity can do twice as much work, when a magnetic field is properly applied to the circuit. > [@](#): > > I’ll show you a new kind of electric motor that can speed up and produce more power without drawing more electricity. What’s he’s actually claiming is that his magic formula can make an electric motor work harder. My understanding of electric motors is pretty limited, but I think the general rule is, if you change one thing, it changes other things. Who knows, maybe the motor overheats and burns out; maybe it runs at less than its rated speed; maybe it’s only feasible for little toy motors. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/12 "2016-08-15T02:35:04Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I don’t have the knowledge necessary to fully evaluate his claims. There’s nothing there to be scrutinized. There’s no explanation of how his amazing motor is supposed to work. Just empty claims without any proof, not even an explanation. And if there was any merit to his claims, he should be publishing papers in _Physical Review Letters_ and waiting for a phone call from Stockholm, or filing patents and talking with investors about starting a company. Not selling DVDs for $37.00. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/13 "2016-08-15T02:44:58Z")
p.s. The first claim: > [@](#): > > The first thing you have to know is this: there is no direct relationship between the strength of a magnetic field and the quantity of electricity used to produce it. > > When I tell this to engineers, physicists, and other experts in the field, it really drives them nuts! appears to be some kind of strawman argument along with obfuscation. _Of course_ there are other factors that determine the strength of a magnetic field other than “quantity of electricity,” whatever that means. (What _does_ that mean anyway? Nobody familiar with physics would use a phrase like that, you’d say current, voltage, or power. Which are all different things.) Why would that drive engineers and physicists “nuts”?? (For what it’s worth, I’m an experimental astrophysicist so I can at least speak the language of both engineers and physicists to some degree.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/14 "2016-08-15T02:49:14Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Instead of using this knowledge building incredible machines that he could sell for millions of dollars, he promises to share the secrets with all comers for the low price of $39. > > I think that about sums it up. I agree. Except millions is way too small. If somebody invented a source of free energy, it would be worth billions. Probably even hundreds of billions. But that’s only if it works. If it doesn’t work, you go online and hope a few suckers will pay you thirty-nine bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/15 "2016-08-15T03:48:25Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > “quantity of electricity,” whatever that means. (What _does_ that mean anyway? Nobody familiar with physics would use a phrase like that, you’d say current, voltage, or power. Which are all different things.) I just can’t ignore this thread… I have to amplify this. Electricity isn’t electrons. Everything is always “full” of electrons, to the extent it always has enough electrons to be neutral solid matter, as opposed to an ionized plasma. It might have a slight deficiency if it becomes positively charged, but that’s trivial; it’s like missing a few drops of water from a whole ocean. A wire conducting electricity isn’t gaining or losing electrons any more than a flowing river is gaining or losing water: It’s getting inflow in one end and discharging outflow from the other at any given instant. The _flow_, the _current_, is electricity. Now, how do you measure current? There’s no single answer. You can measure the volume, the pressure, or the speed. Is the Mississippi River at its mouth “more” or “less” than a firehose? You can step into the Mississippi without getting your skin torn off, but I wouldn’t try that with the firehose. However, you can’t navigate a paddle boat up the firehose. Just saying “more” or “less” without specifying _what_ is meaningless. It’s words strung together in a way which appears to make sense but doesn’t. It’s the patter of a conman or the ravings of an ignoramus, and given that he’s selling something, I’m betting it’s a carny’s patter to draw in the marks. But zoom out, and go back to my first post in this thread. What is he promising? Free energy. Energy out of a system without putting more energy into it. We know with _mathematical certainty_ that that cannot happen, at least if you accept basic physics and calculus. Why? It’s implicit in the basic laws of motion. If you accept Newtonian mechanics, which is basic “throw a ball into the air and watch it fall” eighth-grade stuff, _and_ you accept simple, undergraduate calculus, you can _mathematically prove_ that energy is conserved, so free energy is impossible. It isn’t even hard. We’ve know how to do it since before quantum physics existed. Someone claiming they have a free energy device is even worse than someone claiming they can drive their Ford Pinto to the Moon. We know that free energy is impossible to a _much much greater_ degree of certainty than we know that you can’t drive an econo-box to space. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/16 "2016-08-15T05:05:01Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > It’s not a zero sum game. They’re both great! Maybe but Beakman owns it with the soundeffects! ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/17 "2016-08-15T05:06:46Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Can somebody explain this for me in fairly simple language? No, not really. It’s whargarble. It’s a bunch of terms concerning magnetism and electricity strung together in a way that vaguely sounds like they mean something. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/18 "2016-08-15T11:36:40Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > All I really know is that such claims have a track record of not panning out. If by “not panning out” you mean never been true in the history of the world, you‘re on to something. Now the question is why would you think this guy’s lies have any more merit than all the other lies of the same sort that have gone before, and not dismiss them out of hand? I mean, you know it’s utter bullshit, does it matter why it’s utter bullshit? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/19 "2016-08-15T12:21:29Z")
(aside) Personally, I much prefer Beakman to Nye (and of course, Mr. Wizard over both), because Nye never seems to even attempt to do any science. His MO seems to consist much more of being randomly zany while shouting the word “Science!” very loudly and enthusiastically. His staff seems to make some real effort at getting some education in there, but Nye’s role in the process is to interrupt them just when they’re about to get to the good part. ---
**Author:** ![Nefario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/59ef9b/32.png) [@Nefario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nefario)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819/20 "2016-08-15T17:04:03Z")
When I’m having a slow day I’ll check out [Energetic Forum](http://www.energeticforum.com/)to learn about all the suppressed technology Big Evil Corporations are keeping from the public…and with \*just a little more time and money \*so many of these devices will be ready to be released to the public… [Aaron Murakami](http://aaronmurakami.com/category/free-energy/) is an interesting guy. He’s _YOUNG_…20’s??!..and already giving seminars and selling free engergy products. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-claim-of-free-energy/762819.md?page=2)