# Examining the Effect of Westminster decisions on Scotland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2014, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524 "2014-12-30T10:54:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/1 "2014-12-30T10:54:02Z")
Over the next four months the Westminster Government will be pressed between a rock and a hard place. By Burns Night the posed legislation on further Scottish devolution will be published. According to current polls a majority of the Scottish peel feel that too little is being devolved. At the same time a majority of the English people want English Votes for English Laws. Westminster will not only have to balance these two major problems but also will be examined on its lesser decisions. I suspect that a ratchet effect will come into operation where any decision will frustrate one electorate or the other. Interesting times. The latest action causing debate on Independence websites is a Westminster decision to force English, Welsh and Scottish driving licences to display the Union Flag. Despite the fact that NO will be excluded for political reasons and car registration plates are not required to show the European flag to appease Europhobes, Westminster presses ahead and increases alienation up here. This is an excellent exile as while it is designed to appease the Little Englanders, it offends nationalist opinion in Scotland. As I said, interesting times. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/2 "2014-12-30T11:03:23Z")
> **[Union Jack to go on driving licences](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2890691/Union-Jack-driving-licences.html)** > > British driving licences will soon feature the Union Jack as well as the current European Union flag. Ministers say the changes mean motorists will be able to ‘fly the flag with pride’ on their photo-cards. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/3 "2014-12-30T11:05:53Z")
This quote shows how little they care for people who self identify as Scottish but not British: "he changes will apply to motorists in England, Scotland and Wales and provide road users ‘with a symbolic sign of their national identity’. Transport Minister Claire Perry said: ‘People in this country rightly take pride in our national flag which is why I am delighted it will now be displayed on British driving licences. Transport minister Claire Perry said the changes meant that UK motorists will be able to ‘fly the flag with pride’ on the photo-card element of their licence +2 Transport minister Claire Perry said the changes meant that UK motorists will be able to ‘fly the flag with pride’ on the photo-card element of their licence 'Celebrating Britain strengthens our sense of national identity and our unity. I will feel proud to carry my new licence and I hope others will too.’" Read more: [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2890691/Union-Jack-driving-licences.html#ixzz3NNVGhs1s](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2890691/Union-Jack-driving-licences.html#ixzz3NNVGhs1s) Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/4 "2014-12-30T18:38:12Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > As I said, interesting times. Starting to get a little boring frankly. A new thread because people are getting their panties in a twist over the graphics on driver’s licenses? Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/5 "2014-12-30T18:43:38Z")
**Pjen** , you know nobody is paying attention to you anymore, right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/6 "2014-12-30T18:47:43Z")
The majority of us do not reside in Scotland and have no idea when “Burns Night” is/was. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/7 "2014-12-30T19:03:27Z")
It’s January 25, Robert Burns’ birthday. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/8 "2014-12-30T19:40:10Z")
Getting upset over the flag on drivers’ licenses is petty, whether it be the EU flag, the UK flag or the Scottish one. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/9 "2014-12-30T21:02:18Z")
Are there a great many Scots offended by the Union Flag that aren’t already solidly in the SNP camp? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/10 "2014-12-30T21:03:44Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Getting upset over the flag on drivers’ licenses is petty, whether it be the EU flag, the UK flag or the Scottish one. Tend to agree. But I think that forcing a group of people to display a flag when it is not necessary is stoking up problems. The fact that the government previously allowed peel to omit the EU flag from licence plates or replace it with national flags and will not force the change on the north of Ireland shows that they understand the sensitivity but have chosen to ignore it. Anyway, the SNP Labour coalition will not implement it. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/11 "2014-12-30T21:05:12Z")
Burns Night is important as that was the time line given for the vow to make it clear when things would be done. Three stages-four weeks, St Andrews Day and Burns Night. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/12 "2014-12-30T21:06:24Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Are there a great many Scots offended by the Union Flag that aren’t already solidly in the SNP camp? Are there many nationalists in the north of Ireland who are not already Sinn Fein or SDLP? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/13 "2014-12-30T21:11:30Z")
Have the Scots considered seceding? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/14 "2014-12-30T21:49:41Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Burns Night is important as that was the time line given for the vow to make it clear when things would be done. Three stages-four weeks, St Andrews Day and Burns Night. And do you honestly think the general public on this board knows when the Burns Night or St. Andrews Day is? This isn’t a Scots-centered message board, y’know. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/15 "2014-12-30T22:01:35Z")
It’s a thread about Scottish politics. I don’t think it’s a huge imposition to assume anyone who cares can look it up - as if you couldn’t guess roughly when it is from the context of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/16 "2014-12-30T22:27:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And do you honestly think the general public on this board knows when the Burns Night or St. Andrews Day is? This isn’t a Scots-centered message board, y’know. The point is that Gordon Brown cleverly anchored key stages to dates well known in Scotland so that they would not be forgotten. St Andrews day is a school and public holiday and Burns Night, though not a public holiday, is celebrated by almost all with a meal and often a collective gathering. Clever marketing! ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/17 "2014-12-31T03:08:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And do you honestly think the general public on this board knows when the Burns Night or St. Andrews Day is? This isn’t a Scots-centered message board, y’know. This board isnt centered on any one thing, y’know. Now I know a bit more about modern Scots politics than I did 10 minutes ago. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/18 "2014-12-31T09:33:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s a thread about Scottish politics. I don’t think it’s a huge imposition to assume anyone who cares can look it up - as if you couldn’t guess roughly when it is from the context of the OP. The context doesn’t tell us who this Burns guy is. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/19 "2014-12-31T09:49:37Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > The context doesn’t tell us who this Burns guy is. Putting “Burns Night” into Wikipedia search gives [Burns supper - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burns_supper) Google gives: [Google](https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Burns+night) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524/20 "2014-12-31T13:20:02Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Have the Scots considered seceding? Perhaps there should have been some sort of vote on it, to see whether they actually want to… Then nationalists would have to realise that they are a minority. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examining-the-effect-of-westminster-decisions-on-scotland/708524.md?page=2)