That’s “take our word for it.”
Does it ever occur to you that there is a reason people use modern medicines instead of older ones? They work better. They’re not perfect or free of complications, but if the plants were the best alternative, people wouldn’t have started looking for other options.
Again, this is a false equivalence.
Why do you think God confuses people by putting so many options at their disposal without a clear way to figure out the best choice?
Pull the other one.
You should think carefully before accusing people of dishonesty.
To clarify, I trust the press as a whole more than I trust any single news channel or paper, but my trust in the process of Journalism is certainly not absolute. Journalism is only as good as it’s sources at the end of the day.
The words trust and faith are not interchangeable.
I cannot for the life of me discern what you might mean with this combination of words.
What you have written here so far is self-contradiction and nonsense. Your position and your argument appears to expand and shift in a very mercurial fashion.
If you want to convince anyone of anything, you’ll have to try harder to make yourself clear in a much more consistent fashion. If you are working from a position of love, it appears to be undermining your ability to express yourself in a manner quite impairing relative to its impact on other people. On the other hand, your ability to describe what you mean is very much like other people who are also trying to describe and discuss woo. Don’t confuse love and woo.
God sometimes will use homeopathy to heal, sometimes He won’t.
Yes and no. Because of our free will God allows us to reject a method of healing. Yes God could just make everything healed, but there is another aspect, us. we are all part of God as we are His children. Because we are ‘gods’ in our own right, God respects our godhood and ‘free will’, and also has to guide us as a parent guiding his child.
We are learning in many ways, and though many will disagree with the statement, even science is guided by God for our ultimate good.
I was thinking this myself, only a little more broadly.
That is, it appears common for practitioners of woo to dismiss or attack “science” as something unnatural and in some fashion malevolent.
But science is nothing more than a human creation arising from the need to evaluate practices and improve the human condition. It’s something we do that we came up with out of need. If science didn’t lead to improvement, we wouldn’t use it.
Thank you for your constructive criticism
Perhaps look into the way medicine men work. They don’t work alone but as part of a community. They inquire of the spirits for inspiration and direction, use their past (learned) knowledge, they gather certain plants and substances from nature, they process them in certain ways, they look and touch the patient, deliver the medicine, they many times state that it is not them who heals but the community and the spirits/god(s) and draw upon the power of the community.
Here you have the person anointed to be the healer (medicine man), Healing substances (plants), healing processes (processing/blending of ingredients), healing from others that the medicine man may encounter, healing from the spirits, etc. The particular healing for the person can come through any of the above or combination of the above. Whatever channel God wants to use, but whatever those channles are they contain God’s healing Love.
God is Love, and that Love flows between us and unites us all as one. This is the Holy Spirit. It is one Spirit and it runs from Father God to His creation Mother Earth and all the plants and substances contained here to us. We all together act as one being to heal our sick members.
Right. Like I said earlier, science is a methodology for understanding the world. kanicbird’s approach is something more like optimistic cluelessness.
I do agree with this also
Which again contradicts your earlier statement that you received some sort of proof concerning homeopathy. Either something was proved or it wasn’t.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
We are learning in many ways, and though many will disagree with the statement, even science is guided by God for our ultimate good.
[/QUOTE]
If God is playing a shell game with the efficacy of medicine (according to you, sometimes medicines will work, sometimes they won’t), how is that supposed to be scientific? Why is God’s love more prevalent in ibuprofen than in a glass of water?
Part of the reason is also people have been made afraid of nature, thinking it as dirty and something to be avoided. A lot of this has been caused by marketing, not superior performance of manufactured drugs.
To me it is exactly the same, the god of science or the god of religion excluding the other.
God wants us to accept other people and their beliefs as they also contain things that God wants us all to know. If God only wanted science we would have a situation where one people would go around conquering the world in the name of God. But that is not the God of Love, God Loves all His people in all creation and have placed pieces of His wisdom in differing people made to come together not to oppress but to learn and grow as a people but also children of God.
To tie back in to your OP, then, it really doesn’t make one bit of difference whether I check something out on my own or take someone else’s word for anything. We are all united as one, and god may or may not choose to act in any particular circumstance based on his desires at that time. Thus, if god wishes me to know whether or not Obama was born in Kenya, Hawaii or on the moon, that will be the outcome.
In fact, if we are all united as one in god’s holy spirit love, whatever someone else tells me is a product of that holy spirit love. There’s no reason then to doubt what someone else tells me.
I was lead to take a homeopathic remedy, I took it and was cured. What difference does not make past this point.
If a person was sick and I wished to help them I would pray and follow that leading, if there was no clear answer I may suggest something that worked for me in the past or other help.
It’s not God playing a shell game it is us trying to figure out something by looking in the wrong place. But even if we are looking in the wrong place God is still able to provide healing.
Only IF that person is acting in Love, as Love is the Holy Spirit. If a person is acting our of greed, hate, lust, etc. that is not of God (yet everything is of God and will be tied back together in time as all bad stuff now will work for the eternal good, but for now they are emotions not connected to the Holy Spirit, but disconnected fragments). If you act in those you are not receiving in the Holy Spirit.
Eventually everything will go to Love, and there will be no more of the other stuff. But until then these free will emotions cause pain in our world.
Then we are not actually all united in god’s loving holy spirit. I should not have believed you when you told me that previously. I should have checked it out for myself, even though god may or may not choose to change the facts of the matter before or after I check it out for myself.
I think it’s also possible to have too much of god’s love, to the detriment of the overall functioning of the afflicted.
Fortunately, now that people are afraid of medications, “nature” is coming back with diseases that were under control or nearly wiped out.
Some of it, but that’s primarily about one medication compared to another, not your false dichotomy of science vs. nature.
I know. That’s because you’re poorly informed and mistrustful of the tools that can shed light on this issue.
Apaprently he wants us to believe everything. Which is not very different from believing in nothing at all, since your proposal leads to a morass of confusion where people don’t know how to make sense of their illnesses or figure out what to do about them. Just try everything and go with what appears to work. Don’t evaluate things critically - that’s mean. This is exactly the problem we can use science to alleviate.
**
Marley23** part of the problem is science is failing us in a way. We have put too much faith and hope into it and it is only a partial solution and never will be more then a partial solution - as it’s designed to be. Many treat it as the only solution.
Like anything else, too much of a good thing is bad. A balance is needed, [aside] perhaps that’s where the term holistic healing comes from [/aside]. When thing get too far out in one direction a correcting is coming.
That is what we are seeing now. People have been let down by science. Yes we can do wonderful stuff in terms of medicine and science can help many many people, but if the best science can offer can not cure your athlete’s foot fungus then science is not helpful for you in that no matter how many people produce double blind studies to prove that science can indeed cure it.
Science has another big problem, the cost prevents many people from accessing it. yes part of the science helps to reduce costs, but still many can not obtain the medicine they need due to cost, so that has failed us also, and health care cost seem to be increasing. Perhaps the cost issue is being used as part of the correction.
So Kanicbird, I’m gonna guess that you have no intention of debating, right? No fact, no evidence could possibly convince you that your ignorant daydreams aren’t real, right? I just want to know where we stand.
You’re essentially graffiti on a wall, no amount of talking or reasoning will change what you say?
Why yes, there have been terrible letdowns. People infected with HIV are living extended productive lives with an infection that formerly killed them in a short period of time. Similarly, new antiviral regimens are curing hepatitis C infections, which otherwise could lead to liver failure and the need for transplantation. Numerous cancers can either be commonly cured (as in the case of some lymphomas and testicular carcinomas), frequently eradicated through surgery and drug therapy, or halted long enough to meaningfully extend lives for many people. Many once-feared infectious diseases have been eliminated or vastly reduced in incidence thanks to vaccination and other public health efforts. Other formerly deadly infections can be successfully treated along with surgical//trauma emergencies that used to be fatal in most instances. What a horrid record of failure.
Is that what this is about? Your feet still itch? You’ll be relieved to hear that medicine’s record against athlete’s foot is actually pretty good.
Of course, our health would probably be even better if there were fewer people trusting their health to their interpretation of God’s Love and hearing messages from on high in the supplement aisle at the supermarket.
Originally Posted by kanicbird
"God sometimes will use homeopathy to heal, sometimes He won’t. "
I believe he won’t.
Of course, the FSM may choose to nudge me with his noodly appendage, but that usually happens when I eat a lot of cheese.
Cheese heals.
Really? Ever notice how “natural” is a big advertising slogan? Plus, people go out all over the world harvesting plants to see if they might be useful for curing diseases. The reason we no long just use plants to cure is that, first, many of us don’t live near the right plants any more, second, we can concentrate the chemical in the plant that does the healing, and avoid the stuff that has no use, and third, we can give people a consistent and optimal dose.
It is too bad that God left accepting other people out of the Bible.
Look, reading this thread makes me see you as the veritable poster child for the unfalsifiability fallacy. A remedy works. God loves us. It doesn’t work - God has a reason. The scientific method consistently works - God wants us to find out stuff.
Assuming that God didn’t really start to love us when the germ theory of disease was discovered, how come our life expectancies have shot up, how come people live now who would have died 50 years ago? If you credit God’s love, please give me a method to distinguish the case that Gods love has made us more healthy from the case that God doesn’t exist, and science did it. I can predict that advances in science will cure more diseases and increase life expectancy. What can you predict?