Examples of failed democracies

[Sitnam]

@Chihuahua

The other example that comes to my mind is the Battle of Arginusae. Short version: Some sailors drowned because a storm prevented their rescue. Even though the admirals won the Battle, many of them were executed because the mob was unhappy over the loss of life.

This was the kind of stupidity the Athenian system couldn’t deal with. You can’t let a mob second-guess the actions of leaders in ambiguous, risky, or highly specialised situations. Not only do you purge your experienced leaders, but the replacement leaders become risk averse and/or overly willing to please.

Eh, The Méduse incident clearly shows a mob in a democracy can be right in second-guessing the abuse of military leaders and entrenched dysfunction.

[smiling_bandit]

@JRDelirious

Like others, where I disagree with (allegedly) Heinlein is about the hint of inevitability that it carries with it – and of course the opportunistic political usage of it.

I don’t disagree with that specific criticism, and Heinlein could be as cranky as anyone. That doesn’t mean that the sound-bite version is actually wrong, though, as long as it’s accepted as a rather short and pithy saying rather than literal gospel handed down from on high.

[robert_columbia]

@md2000

The big problem with the USA system vs. much of the third world - learning democracy…
The joke about Egypt’s Morsi was “some groups consider democracy a bus that they ride until it gets to their stop.” (He was slowly stacking the deck against secular elements) This is the problem with the third world. They have no idea of democracy, generally. The idea that the police will treat everyone fairly, that the politicians will listen to the will of the people, that courts will render honest and fair decisions, even against the government, that minority rights will be respected… even the USA and British colonies are still evolving these behaviours toward the ideal…

@Quartz

Many countries in sub-Saharan Africa have been failed democracies, though largely through kleptocracy and tribal warfare. Some of them are now succeeding, thankfully.

I sense a “No true Scotsman” argument under the surface here. If a government is a democracy on the surface but in fact is corrupted by kleptocrats, political machines, or anti-democratic social movements, then the government really isn’t a “true” democracy and it’s ok if it fails.

[DrDeth]

@robert_columbia

I sense a “No true Scotsman” argument under the surface here. If a government is a democracy on the surface but in fact is corrupted by kleptocrats, political machines, or anti-democratic social movements, then the government really isn’t a “true” democracy and it’s ok if it fails.

No one said “it’s OK if it fails”. Sure, Greece is a Democracy. And no, it didnt fail. It came close. It’s the closest to the Heinlein quote and even so, it only had issues as the government found they could borrow like crazy from other EU nations.

Venezuela & Zimbabwe had some democracy but before the bad times started they were no longer democracies- the Autocrats were what caused the issue.

Just because the National Socialist German Workers’ Party has “Socialist” in it’s name doesnt mean it was so. Just because Hitler was elected (sorta) doesnt mean he ran a Democratic nation when he was in power.