# Examples of internal demonyms as surnames? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 3, 2025, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719 "2025-09-03T18:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/1 "2025-09-03T18:17:03Z")
In **[a recent Politics & Elections post](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-positions-or-how-the-democrats-can-win-again/1015794/132)**, @John_Bredin wrote the following about Hungarian politician Péter Magyar: > [@Policy positions (or how the Democrats can win again)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-positions-or-how-the-democrats-can-win-again/1015794/132): > > Isn’t Magyar the Hungarian word for Hungarian? It’s like the next Democratic presidential nominee being Pete American! “You can’t get more American than Pete American for President!” **John \_Bredin** is right. Some (or even many) cultures do have demonyms serve as surnames. Most common are those that seem to refer to an ancestor who was an outsider to a given group – an _external_ demonym. For example, the Italian surnames _Tedesco_ essentially meaning “The German” and _Schiavo_ meaning “The Slav”. Seemingly less common as surnames are demonyms that apparently denote an insider to a group – an _internal_ demonym. Magyar’s surname would be an example. Some others would be the English-language surnames _English_ and (perhaps) _Scott_, the German surname _Deutscher_, and (stretching a bit) the Turkish _Türkoğlu_. Harkening back to when the ethno-national lines in Europe differed from today, we can also consider surnames such as Spanish _Navarro_ and Italian _Siciliano_. The FQ is simply: Are there many other surnames out there that are internal demonyms? If so, what are some examples? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/2 "2025-09-03T19:06:18Z")
Nitpick: Magyars are an ethnic group that makes up the majority (97.7%) of Hungary. Similarly: Iranians are a people who have citizenship of Iran, and Persians are something like 2/3 of the country. Bosnian is a nationality and Bosniak is an ethnoreligious group (just over 50% of the country), though this is more relying on the historic religion than any genetic differences with their neighbors. The weird example I can think of is that Somali is both a demonym but not everybody in the country is an ethnic Somali. So I’m not clear if you’re asking about nationality or ethnicity, but we can do both. Turks didn’t have surnames as a rule until 1934, so Türkoğlu was likely in recent memory chosen to honor the country. To help any further searches: exonym is a name designed by outsiders, endonym by the group in question. It’s less common for these to become names, but some examples I can think of are: - Suomi (Finland) - Horvat (Croatia) - Moravec (Czech, from Moravia) - Bharat or Bharath (India, usually a first name) - Moldoveanu (Moldova, but also in Romania which is the same language) - Maybe De Gaulle? - Arabic has a bunch of al- names designating where the person came from (al-Iraqi) or later adopted as an inherited name, not surnames as such. **Tons** of examples of surnames derived from place names within a country (or possibly former countries), but that list is long. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/3 "2025-09-03T19:15:48Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > So I’m not clear if you’re asking about nationality or ethnicity, but we can do both. Either or both of nationality and ethnicity. In the OP, I’m thinking generally of endonyms on the “nation/kingdom” (either erstwhile or present-day) level or the “population/ethnicity” level and not on the “region” or “city” level. As you note – surnames derived from mere “place names” are legion. … _DeGaulle_ is a good example. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/4 "2025-09-03T19:42:29Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Arabic has a bunch of al- names designating where the person came from (al-Iraqi) or later adopted as an inherited name, not surnames as such. I don’t know the ground rules of Arabic naming conventions (esp what counts as a surname/family name), but I’ll offer **[these for consideration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Masri)**: > **Masri** , **Masry** , **Misri** or **Al-Masri** and **El-Masry** (Arabic: المصري, commonly spelled in the Egyptian dialect as المصرى) is Semitic language (Arabic and Hebrew) last name that literally means “the Egyptian”. The surname is commonly found in modern Egyptians … ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/5 "2025-09-03T19:42:39Z")
The French given name/ surname François fits the bill, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/6 "2025-09-03T19:56:27Z")
Ultimately yes, but I think it’s more like “cousin” names. The Franks called themselves Franci, which may or may not have been related to their word for “free.” Eventually this lead to the Latin name Franciscus, and derivatives in other languages across families like: Francis/Frances, François, Franz, Franco, etc. Either related or separately, these Germanic-speaking peoples lent their name to a part of their kingdom, which was later expanded and Romanized to a different language group, creating the Kingdom of France, and later the ~~Republic~~ ~~Empire~~ ~~Kingdom~~ ~~Republic~~ ~~Empire~~ ~~Republic~~ ~~collaborationist rump state~~ ~~Republic~~ ~~Republic~~ ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/7 "2025-09-03T20:14:16Z")
There’s the Keanu Reeves character’s improbable name from _Point Break_: **Johnny Utah**. He _might_ have a little Ute blood in him… ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/8 "2025-09-03T20:18:35Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Suomi (Finland) Verner Suomi was a pioneer in satellite meteorology, responsible for the first weather observation satellite and the ground processing systems and software associated with that mission. > **[Verner E. Suomi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verner_E._Suomi)** > > Verner Edward Suomi (December 6, 1915 – 30 July 1995) was a Finnish-American educator, inventor, and scientist. He is considered the father of satellite meteorology. He invented the Spin Scan Radiometer, which for many years was the instrument on the GOES weather satellites that generated the time sequences of cloud images seen on television weather shows. The Suomi NPP polar orbiting satellite, launched in 2011, was named in his honor. > Suomi was born in Eveleth, Minnesota to Swedish-speaking Fi... The Wiki article for the surname “Suomi” actually lists half-a-dozen notable people. > **[Suomi (surname)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomi_(surname))** > > Suomi is a surname literally meaning 'Finland' in the Finnish language. Notable people with this surname include: ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/9 "2025-09-03T20:34:35Z")
I know two unrelated people with the surname French. My dictionary of last names tells me it means…French person. Interestingly, neither of them claim recent French ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/10 "2025-09-03T21:01:00Z")
Robert Timothy French created French’s mustard. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/11 "2025-09-03T21:13:03Z")
Apparently, the surname “French” first appeared in England in the 14th Century and comes from the Norman word for ash tree. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/12 "2025-09-03T21:13:41Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > The French given name/ surname François fits the bill, I believe. I’ve also seen the surname _LeFrançois_. That was a good one. … Didn’t know about _Suomi_ as as surname, **gnoitall**. Thanks for dropping that one in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/13 "2025-09-04T00:02:28Z")
Charles DeGaulle has been mentioned. But what about the singer [France Gall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_Gall)? Is Gall another demonym variation? > [@](#): > > **Isabelle Geneviève Marie Anne Gall** (9 October 1947 – 7 January 2018), known professionally as **France Gall** , was a French _[yé-yé](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C3%A9-y%C3%A9)_ singer. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/14 "2025-09-04T00:10:22Z")
Dr. Craig Israelite replaced my knees. Good surgeon. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/15 "2025-09-04T00:10:56Z")
Wow, I just have to say: I haven’t heard anyone mention France Gall in about 30 years! I used to love her. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/16 "2025-09-04T00:17:49Z")
This one is interesting: [Caleb Southern](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caleb_Southern), born in North Carolina. “Southern” might not be a true demonym, since “Southerner” is the full demonym; but it’s the adjectival version of the demonym. Furthermore, [“Southern” as a surname doesn’t refer to the American South, but to the English South, and it appears to be something of an external demonym there.](https://www.ancestry.com/last-name-meaning/southern?geo-lang=en-US#:~:text=Southern%20Family%20History-,Southern%20Surname%20Meaning,%2C%20Sauter) But that points to its existence as a traditional demonym for another part of the world from where Caleb Southern lived. Edit: crap, I just saw your follow-up where you said you’re less interested in regional demonyms. Sorry! ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/17 "2025-09-04T00:40:58Z")
Schweitzer (Switzerland) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/18 "2025-09-04T00:46:19Z")
Samuel German invented German chocolate cake. If actress France Nuyen married video game designer American McGee, would they always serve their kids Franco-American spaghetti and meatballs? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/19 "2025-09-04T01:27:15Z")
The name prefix, if you will, Von, Van, Ter, Sud, etc. also indicates that one’s ancestors were from or near a certain place. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/20 "2025-09-04T01:47:27Z")
Von can be both “of” or “from” but also in the German and Austrian(-Hungary) Empire and later was a sign of nobility. Some guys tacked on a von to be fancy. “Van” and the like don’t have the same connotations in Dutch as far as I know, it’s a toponymic feature. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719.md?page=2)