# Examples of internal demonyms as surnames? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 3, 2025, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719 "2025-09-03T18:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/21 "2025-09-04T10:27:47Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > Schweitzer (Switzerland) In the Germanosphere, there are also the names “Österreicher” and “Holländer”. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/22 "2025-09-04T10:37:25Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > > [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > > > Schweitzer (Switzerland) > > In the Germanosphere, there are also the names “Österreicher” and “Holländer”. _Bayer_ can be included, too, since Bavaria was once independent. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/23 "2025-09-04T10:42:38Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > _Bayer_ can be included, too, since Bavaria was once independent. Oh, if that is allowed, we also have Hess(e), Schwab(e), Sachs(e), Preuss(e), Franke, Friese and probably some more I don’t think about at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/24 "2025-09-04T11:48:47Z")
Then my maternal ancestors would qualify, if Dunkelberger referred to a specific dark mountain, or Max Bialystock of _The Producers_ from a particular white mountain. I worked with a Mr. Brabender, who’d endured all the teasing growing up as you’d expect, all because his family came over from the Brabant region ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/25 "2025-09-04T13:27:11Z")
Also Walt Disney, from Isigny-sur-Mer Norman French. Although when Walt wrested central Florida for his kingdom he used straw-purchasers rather than sword and mace. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/26 "2025-09-04T13:37:39Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Then my maternal ancestors would qualify, if Dunkelberger referred to a specific dark mountain The difference is that there never was a state or region named Dunkelberg, while Bavaria, Hesse, Swabia, Prussia etc. all have been real independent political entities, states, kingdoms or duchies in the past. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/27 "2025-09-04T14:12:01Z")
By coincidence, I am in Isigny right now. There is a small “Walt d”Isigny” museum near the town hall. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/28 "2025-09-04T15:45:41Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > > [@bordelond](#): > > > > _Bayer_ can be included, too, since Bavaria was once independent. > > Oh, if that is allowed, we also have Hess(e), Schwab(e), Sachs(e), Preuss(e), Franke, Friese and probably some more I don’t think about at the moment. Looking at the north-central portion of this 1871 unification map, it looks like **[Mecklenburg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Mecklenburg)** is another: [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Deutsches_Reich_%281871-1918%29-en.png/1024px-Deutsches_Reich_%281871-1918%29-en.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Deutsches_Reich_%281871-1918%29-en.png/1024px-Deutsches_Reich_%281871-1918%29-en.png) Further: **[Brandenburg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margraviate_of_Brandenburg)** was apparently an independent margraviate for over 600 years, into the early 19th century. I know of a few people with that surname. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/29 "2025-09-04T16:10:33Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Also Walt Disney, from Isigny-sur-Mer Norman French. Over at that other animation studio, the main scriptwriter was Michael Maltese. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/30 "2025-09-04T16:21:43Z")
Mustafa Attaturk kind of. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/31 "2025-09-04T20:33:52Z")
I saw a baseball player named Ty France on the Blue Jays. I had a collateral relative name Mesirov. I have a collateral relative named Mesirov. I have always assumed this was a reference to Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/32 "2025-09-04T20:45:04Z")
Ludwig van Beethoven tried to use that to hack the Austrian legal system. He filed a case in aristocrats’ court (_Landrechte_) where he thought he could get a better deal. On the basis that the Flemish “van” was the same as an Austrian “von” in granting nobility, though it was nothing of the sort. The Austrian judge saw through that ploy and sent the case down to civil court. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/33 "2025-09-04T21:31:44Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I had a collateral relative name Mesirov. I have a collateral relative named Mesirov. I have always assumed this was a reference to Egypt . For a long time, I thought designer Isaac Mizrahi’s surname meant “Egyptian”. I recently learned that _Mizrahi_ actually means, roughly, “easterner, one from the east” in Hebrew. The Hebrew word for Egypt, _Mitzraim_, is superfically similar but is spelled with a different letter where the “z” in _Mizrahi_ is. @Alessan or @Babale can perhaps cofirm. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/34 "2025-09-04T21:36:49Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > The Hebrew word for Egypt, _Mitzraim_, is superfically similar but is spelled with a different letter where the “z” in _Mizrahi_ is. @Alessan or @Babale can perhaps cofirm. צ vs ז. Tzadi is not a sound you have in English, hence the TZ spelling there. Zayin is just like Z. There are other differences in the words than just the zayin and tzadi though. I guess it’s sometimes spelled with a ts. Doesn’t really matter, it’s not like you can make the sound anyways 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/35 "2025-09-04T21:38:04Z")
That’s right - “z” and “tz” are separate letters in Hebrew. “Mizrahi” does in fact mean “Easterner”, and as a Ashkenazic Jewish last name usually means that the person had an ancestor from an “Oriental” community, meaning a Jewish community from the Muslim part of the world. “MItzraim” is the Hebrew word for Egypt, from the same root as the Arabic “Misr”. An Egyptian would be called “Mitzri”. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/36 "2025-09-04T21:49:16Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Tzadi is not a sound you have in English _Quick tangent:_ That sound is not essentially like the “zz” in “pizza”? ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/37 "2025-09-04T21:51:20Z")
I believe the surname Polanski and its variants means “from Poland,” and there are several Poles with that name. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/38 "2025-09-04T21:53:10Z")
Kind of is right, as Ataturk was a title given to Kemal Mustafa, rather than a name. Sort if like calling George Washington the Father of the Country ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/39 "2025-09-04T21:57:38Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > That sound is not essentially like the “zz” in “pizza”? I suppose it is very similar, and in Hebrew the loanword pizza is spelled P - i - tz - a. But it’s still somehow very difficult for English speakers. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719/40 "2025-09-05T12:03:00Z")
That sound as a single letter exists in a number of languages. I think most, if not all, Slavic languages have it (in Polish, it’s _c_), Hungarian has it, also as _c_. Same with Albanian. German has it in _z_. The Baltic languages have it. Italian has it in a few words like pizza and mezzo. I don’t think it’s difficult for English speakers in intervocalic positions, but it may be somewhat awkward in initial positions like the word “tsar” or “tsunami.” I grew up speaking Polish, so it’s never been a problem to me, but from observation that seems to be where it’s tricky. But maybe it’s not even an issue there, though I swear I more often hear “Zar” and “Sunami” than with the initial “t.” (The the former being more often especially as it’s spelled as “czar” mostly these days, it seems.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-internal-demonyms-as-surnames/1022719.md?page=3)