# Examples of natural phenomena being used as proof of religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108 "2017-10-06T14:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/1 "2017-10-06T14:31:33Z")
Before modern science, certain phenomena didn’t make sense and were used as proof of deities or supernatural phenomena. Examples: hallucinogenic drugs giving supernatural experiences. Columbus using an eclipse to scare natives into thinking their deity was angry. Temporal lobe epilepsy or schizophrenia among religious prophets causing them to have visions. Some temples in an ancient society were built on sites that produced toxic gas, causing death or visions. Etc. Was magnetism ever used as proof of a deity in history? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/2 "2017-10-06T14:47:30Z")
Pretty much all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/3 "2017-10-06T14:57:21Z")
I have a tendency to ask people who are, shall we say, waxing eloquent on the subject of god and religion to show proof of the existence of the god. They will invariably say something to the effect of look around you. Do you think the earth and the trees and the people just happened by accident? I usually reply yes and then hilarity ensues, but that’s another story. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/4 "2017-10-06T15:27:23Z")
The banana. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/5 "2017-10-06T15:32:38Z")
Clothahump’s experience is similar to mine. I was talking to an acquaintance who found out I was an atheist, and he commented that he couldn’t bring himself to think that there’s no god when he sees the trees, mountains, and sunset. I didn’t push back, but I was just thinking to myself that he picked all things that we have well-known natural explanations for. ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/6 "2017-10-06T15:44:22Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > The banana. For those who haven’t seen [proof of God](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4) :smack: ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/7 "2017-10-06T15:46:10Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Clothahump’s experience is similar to mine. I was talking to an acquaintance who found out I was an atheist, and he commented that he couldn’t bring himself to think that there’s no god when he sees the trees, mountains, and sunset. I didn’t push back, but I was just thinking to myself that he picked all things that we have well-known natural explanations for. Religion and atheism are both beliefs. We humans have neither the knowledge nor the sensory ability to understand the true nature of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/8 "2017-10-06T15:49:43Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Religion and atheism are both beliefs. We humans have neither the knowledge nor the sensory ability to understand the true nature of the universe. If only someone could coin a word meaning a lack of belief. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/9 "2017-10-06T15:52:55Z")
Two songs come to mind by two different artists, claiming that a God must exist because the songwriter has a baby daughter. ---
**Author:** ![Ornery\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/da6949/32.png) [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/10 "2017-10-06T16:07:11Z")
Existence itself is often seen as “proof.” “You don’t think something came from nothing do you?” ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/11 "2017-10-06T16:11:30Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > We humans have neither the knowledge nor the sensory ability to understand the true nature of the universe. That’s your belief, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Pixel\_Dent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Pixel\_Dent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixel_Dent)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/12 "2017-10-06T16:12:03Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > Existence itself is often seen as “proof.” “You don’t think something came from nothing do you?” It’s turtles all the way down ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/13 "2017-10-06T16:12:32Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > That’s your belief, is it? It’s not a belief, it’s _fact_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/14 "2017-10-06T16:13:46Z")
Go way back to the original natural phenomenon - are there any religions out there saying “Let there be light” = the Big Bang? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/15 "2017-10-06T16:39:17Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > That’s your belief, is it? Any opinion on this topic can only be belief because the facts are not known. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/16 "2017-10-06T16:42:55Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Go way back to the original natural phenomenon - are there any religions out there saying “Let there be light” = the Big Bang? If there is a God and if God revealed truth to humans 3000 years ago, would not he have to use language and concepts understandable to them. If God or our alien overlords tried to explain to us on 2017 the specific science explaining the universe and everything within, we could not understand it. They would have to try to explain in using language and concepts that we do understand. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/17 "2017-10-06T16:46:26Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Religion and atheism are both beliefs. We humans have neither the knowledge nor the sensory ability to understand the true nature of the universe. They’re both beliefs, but they’re not both equally valid. I can believe a flipped coin will land heads up. You can believe it will turn into a potato in mid air. Both beliefs ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/18 "2017-10-06T16:52:39Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > They’re both beliefs, but they’re not both equally valid. I can believe a flipped coin will land heads up. You can believe it will turn into a potato in mid air. Both beliefs I have to disagree because again we have no idea whether there is a ‘creator’ or not. Imo, we should keep as open a mind as possible as new evidence pours in. Why is the idea of a creator so hard to believe? Where did the matter and energy of the universe come from? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/19 "2017-10-06T16:53:39Z")
What some are mentioning above it the [argument from beauty](http://www.google.com/search?q=argument+from+beauty&btnG=), which can be summarized as “flowers are pretty, therefore Jesus.” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108/20 "2017-10-06T17:05:19Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > If there is a God and if God revealed truth to humans 3000 years ago, would not he have to use language and concepts understandable to them. Any concept understandable to people today would be understandable to people 3,000 years ago, if you have the patience. If there was a god 3,000 years ago and wanted people to understand the germ theory of disease, _he could have told them how to make a fucking microscope_ instead of giving instructions on exactly what the curtains in his temple should look like. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/examples-of-natural-phenomena-being-used-as-proof-of-religion/798108.md?page=2)