# Excellent WaPo blog primer on the Syrian mess **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743 "2013-09-01T17:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/21 "2013-09-04T08:05:57Z")
It’s off-topic but this sentence in the article caught my eye: > [@](#): > > The whole idea that there are rules of war is a pretty new one: the practice of war is thousands of years old, but the idea that we can regulate war to make it less terrible has been around for less than a century. This seems quite false. The [Geneva Convention](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Geneva_Convention) has been around since 1864. Moreover, the “code of chivalry” was many centuries older than that – that “Code” may have been frequently violated, but the same can be said of Geneva Conventions. An old document codifying the “Right of Sanctuary” [was issued by Gunbald, Archbishop of Bordeaux, in 989](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_and_Truce_of_God). (The same right was invoked by the Anthony Quinn character in an effort to save the Sophia Loren character in a famous movie. 🆒 ) ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/22 "2013-09-04T08:12:57Z")
I think you’re working on a different time scale than the author and the code of chivalry only applied to nobles. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/23 "2013-09-04T08:35:14Z")
I think the section on Russia is inaccurate: - Russia hasn’t shipped a lot of weapons to Syria during the civil war. - The Russian naval installation is little more than a shed. It’s of no great importance. - Everybody needs money, but Syria only accounted for some 5% of Russian military exports much of which was never paid for. I’d add: - Russia fears the spread of jihadist ideology back to Russia. Thinks the West is crazy for what it sees as arming and helping Islamists. - Since Syria was allied with Russia during the Cold War and was some kind of socialist there was much interaction, also personal. A lot of intermarriage, and a lot of Russian nationals living inside Syria. Don’t know how many are left after two years of civil war. - Russia still feels sore for the Libya thing. Thinks it gave a little finger, the West fucked it over and ate the whole hand and arm. And it goes all the way back to Serbia and the Baltic states, with the same issues. But all in all, Syria isn’t so important to Russia. It has done it’s part to an ally and can walk away political unscathed. As for the “Red Line.” It seems to fill a lot of the talk among Americans, but I think you’re putting way much more weight on it inside the USA, that the rest of the world does. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/24 "2013-09-04T08:49:32Z")
I was going to question the ‘needs the money’ thing and then forgot. Isn’t Russia a major exporter of oil and gas? I could look it up, but I don’t recall Syria having much of either. And yes on the jihadist part. That’s a much bigger problem inside Ruskiland like with Azerbaijan and I think Georgia for example not to mention the former satellite states (the ‘-stans’) of central asia. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/25 "2013-09-04T15:48:22Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > And yes on the jihadist part. That’s a much bigger problem inside Ruskiland like with Azerbaijan and I think Georgia for example not to mention the former satellite states (the ‘-stans’) of central asia. 🙂 Georgia is Christian. And is not part of Russia. Neither is Azerbaijan part of Russia. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/26 "2013-09-07T03:29:05Z")
Thanks. That was the reason for the ‘Ruskiland’ moniker. I don’t really understand the relationships there but I get the feeling that many of the former satellite countries are only independent in the same way that American Indian territories in the US are sovereign. Technically that’s true and maybe you can even get a federal court to go along with you when push comes to shove, but as a practical matter, I’m not sure how much that really matters. But honestly, I’m mostly ignorant on the topic. 🙂 Anyway, I’m posting to share this - it looks like the latest resolution for the use of force in Syria is a [bait and switch maneuver](http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/09/03/bait_and_switch_obama_syria_congress?page=0,1) designed to allow the insertion of US troops and CIA “advisers” - a term anyone from the Vietnam era will remember fondly. > [@](#): > > But in fact, his [formal proposal](http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/31/us/obama-authorization-request-text/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) is a massive bait-and-switch operation. It authorizes the president to use “the Armed Forces of the United States,” including boots on the ground, and to employ military force “within, to or from Syria.” What is more, the president can act to deter the “use or proliferation” of “chemical or other weapons of mass destruction” and intervene to “protect the United States and its allies and partners against the threat posed by such weapons.” This is nothing less than an open-ended endorsement of military intervention in the Middle East and beyond. Whether or not it will succeed as drafted is another issue. But the fact remains that no one is going to be happy until those chemical weapons are secured and that isn’t going to happen w/o a well trained force on the ground - the estimate I’ve seen is 75k troops. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/27 "2013-09-07T04:15:22Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > Thanks. That was the reason for the ‘Ruskiland’ moniker. I don’t really understand the relationships there but I get the feeling that many of the former satellite countries are only independent in the same way that American Indian territories in the US are sovereign. . Remember, there was recently a war between Georgia and Russia. Seem pretty independent to me. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/28 "2013-09-07T04:36:44Z")
Good point. That’s a little more complicated than the other satellite countries I think but I could easily be wrong. Just read the [background in wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Georgia_war). But you’re getting at what I probably \*should \*have said. I think Russia still regards these states as territories that need to toe the line whether they like it or not. Also I don’t think there’s much doubt about Islamic/Jihadist [terrorism being an issue in Russia proper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Russia) - although most of seems to revolve around Chechnya. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/29 "2013-09-09T09:06:51Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > An old document codifying the “Right of Sanctuary” [was issued by Gunbald, Archbishop of Bordeaux, in 989](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_and_Truce_of_God). (The same right was invoked by the Anthony Quinn character in an effort to save the Sophia Loren character in a famous movie. 🆒 ) You mean cartoon Tom Hulce saving cartoon Demi Moore, I am sure. 😃 (Btw, I have seen almost all versions, EXCEPT the Quinn/Loren one.) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/30 "2013-09-09T09:27:40Z")
Postwar Italian sex goddess nitpick\* : it was Gina Lollobrigida. \*you could read that phrase in a different way, and say you were saving young women from typhus. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743/31 "2013-09-09T10:08:48Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Postwar Italian sex goddess nitpick\* : it was Gina Lollobrigida. > \*you could read that phrase in a different way, and say you were saving young women from typhus. After finding & watching a bit on YouTube, I came back to make that correction. Not a happy movie! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excellent-wapo-blog-primer-on-the-syrian-mess/667743.md?page=1)