# "... except for Superboy and Supergirl... we made that rule to promote diversity and--" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 31, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461 "2015-01-31T21:50:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/21 "2015-02-02T03:53:37Z")
> [@FUTBOL!](#): > > There is so much to respond to in several posts. Please excuse me for skipping (for now) over your point about continuity and a different attitude way back when. It’s interesting, but I think you started out with three boners. > > YEP! Brainy is certainly “super”. In one retro story Cosmic Boy said they MIGHT consider a dude (earlier) who could only make rapid calculations. Note: He was not summarily told good luck elsewhere. B-5’s power goes far beyond that and a good quote about him is “… but he Legion DEPENDS on your planning and inventions.” (This is form the Action Comics story with one member needing to resign for tax purposes.) Beyond that, a super-smart human has an 8th level intellect. Brainiac 5 has a 12th level intellect. It’s quantifiable and demonstrable. > [@](#): > > KK proved his merit with a supposed non-power. His super-Karate, unlike his range of other fighting skills and weapons-mastery, was certainly portrayed (quite unrealistically, IMO) as other-worldly in scope. In his very first appearance, when the legion was :rolleyes: about “super-karate”, he challenged Superboy and KK flung Superboy across the room using Superboy’s momentum and held his own for about 8 panels. Given that this Superboy was the one who could easily blow out suns with his super breath, push planets out of order, and so on. So 8 panels is pretty impressive. With regards to the OP’s question, I think the way it was supposed to work is that each member was supposed to have a unique power _excluding_ Superboy’s and Supergirl’s. Mon-El’s is that he was immune to kryptonite and lead (and that he was marginally stronger than Superboy–he was a couple years older than Superboy, remember). Ultra-Boy’s is that although he has the same power-set and can only use one power at a time, each is slightly better-his “penetra-vision” can see through lead (and melt it–this was at a time where Superboy used X-Ray vision and it couldn’t see through or melt lead). U-Boy’s invulnerablity let him travel through time (SatLoSH 280-ish?) to avoid dying, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/22 "2015-02-02T04:00:16Z")
Unfortunately Ultra-Boy’s powers weren’t (cept for penetra-vision) slightly better than Superboy or Mon-El. That would have made sense and would have been nice, enabling him to hang with those two more, but for whatever reason they seemed to make him a weaker sister when it came down to it. Though there was an issue where (somehow) Ultra-Boy was the only Legionairre (Other than Superboy) who was immune to mind-control. Even Mon-El was effected. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/23 "2015-02-02T04:03:19Z")
They let Supergirl in after Superboy, Mon-El, and Ultra-boy, because she is smokin’ hot. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/24 "2015-02-02T04:05:24Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > They let Supergirl in after Superboy, Mon-El, and Ultra-boy, because she is smokin’ hot. And 14. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/25 "2015-02-02T04:09:05Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Unfortunately Ultra-Boy’s powers weren’t (cept for penetra-vision) slightly better than Superboy or Mon-El. That would have made sense and would have been nice, enabling him to hang with those two more, but for whatever reason they seemed to make him a weaker sister when it came down to it. > > Though there was an issue where (somehow) Ultra-Boy was the only Legionairre (Other than Superboy) who was immune to mind-control. Even Mon-El was effected. I think UB was more skilled than Kal or Mon, though, simply because the one power at a time limitation forced him to be. When he’d been framed for murder and his own teammates were hunting him, he outmaneuvered them in flight, and also owned Colossal Boy and a few other of the heavy hitters in quick succession. (Admittedly Timber Wolf refused to fight him.) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/26 "2015-02-02T04:11:32Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > And 14. Except for the special cases of Mon and Brainy, all the Legionnaires were well under 18 when they joined. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/27 "2015-02-02T14:49:36Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > - Ultimately though, when trying to decipher the intricacies of “Legion Lore”, you simply have to bear in mind that in the real-world 1950/60s Silver Age when the stories were being written, the Legion of Super-Heroes was a spin-off series of a spin-off series (“Superboy” from “Superman”). They were like “Star Trek:TOS” in that they had a devoted, but VERY small fan-base during their hey-day. Also like ST:TOS, they amassed a much larger following years later, after they accumulated a whole lot of back story baggage. > > During the time when a lot of these “ground-rules” for the LSH were being written, mainstream comic book creators gave very little consideration to long-term continuity. Most of these rules were made up for one story only and never expected anyone to even remember the story a few month later, let alone be applied to stories decades later. The writers never anticipated the very real future of the world in which masses of geeks and nerds would have an elaborate web of cyber-technology in which to communicate and expound upon the contrivances they were pulling out of their asses… Up to a point I agree with you. But I think that it really comes down to the early editorship not being very good at attending to continuity, rather than completely dismissing the need for it. There had already been a turning point, sometime around 1959 or 1960. That was the inclusion of a letter column. Some of the “letters” were promotional plants, rather than real. (_ **WHAT? You want an all ‘Perry White meets freak Red K’ feature? You must have been peeking over our shoulders! Look for…** _ ) Others were genuine but facetious, or showed limitless praise, or merely wanted to nail the creative team on boo-boos. But there were some apparently serious questions raised, and that kept the writers and editors on their toes. Yes, it’s a different world now, with online sources especially. Let’s say we have had a whole new turning point. But there have always been nerdy geeks like me. And, as for the specific question of my OP, there certainly were ongoing mentions of the need for at least one unique power in a candidate. For example: (Cosmic Boy, with mildly skeptical tone: ) Why, um, Dexter Rich-brat, what unique power do you possess? (He had none, and he actually thought he could buy membership with a pretty stone.) * * * If you want more evidence of at least some effort toward maintaining continuity, there certainly were enough text boxes, especially in Giant Annual issues, which explained things and listed things based on past issues. All named Phantom Zone villains, Kal-El’s Kryptonian family, Supergirl’s two sets of parents, various Red K effects with story titles, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/28 "2015-02-02T15:43:34Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > Princess Projectra, if written correctly, could do anything Invisible Kid or Shadow Lass could do. I have an issue where a guy with immunity to Jeckie’s purely mental illusion-casting is stymied by darkness courtesy of Shadow Lass – so I figure a robot on the rampage could get its wires ripped out under cover of darkness (or by an Invisible Kid), but hallucinations simply wouldn’t register on video-camera eyes as it advanced on Projectra. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/29 "2015-02-03T02:05:52Z")
I don’t think Invisible Kid was invisible to mechanical sensors and the like. I remember Tharok taking him out after spotting him with his robotic eye. Immunity to mental powers would stymie Jeckie. In that case, Color Kid (who was around much earlier) could do anything Shadow Lass could do. There was a story where the Subs, under the direction of a less-than-sane Braniac 5, took out the League of Super-Assassins, with Color Kid using his powers to create inky blackness. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/30 "2015-02-03T02:12:23Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > Immunity to mental powers would stymie Jeckie. In that case, Color Kid (who was around much earlier) could do anything Shadow Lass could do. Could he see in the dark? ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/31 "2015-02-04T19:55:03Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Could he see in the dark? Sure. [Why not](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision#Thermal_vision)? Just razzin’. Actually it’s a good response. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/32 "2015-02-04T20:42:57Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Could he see in the dark? Didn’t they have him emit blinding light in one of those ‘Let’s beef up the Subs power with some imaginative uses’ issues? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/33 "2015-02-04T20:56:37Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Didn’t they have him emit blinding light in one of those ‘Let’s beef up the Subs power with some imaginative uses’ issues? My point was, let’s say he wants to sneak around all stealthy-like; Shadow Lass can do that, generating darkness that she can see in; and I’ll grant for the sake of argument that Color Kid can generate inky blackness, and that he can do a great impression of a lighthouse. But I’m guessing he either awkwardly stumbles around while feeling his way in the dark, or he draws attention like an incandescent beacon. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/34 "2015-02-04T23:13:36Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > My point was, let’s say he wants to sneak around all stealthy-like; Shadow Lass can do that, generating darkness that she can see in; and I’ll grant for the sake of argument that Color Kid can generate inky blackness, and that he can do a great impression of a lighthouse. But I’m guessing he either awkwardly stumbles around while feeling his way in the dark, or he draws attention like an incandescent beacon. Also, Shady was an independent hero before she joined the Legion, and if I recall correctly did so during an adventure against the Fatal Five. The Legion was always more generous–no, make that more eager to induct–candidates who showed they had the true grit from the get-go. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/35 "2015-02-10T06:04:46Z")
I just read some LSH stories circa 50’s…I don’t think there was a single page that didn’t make me go “What the f…”. Whether it was Superboy changing the atomic structure of an element with a ‘super-shout’ or the Legion constantly interfering in the past even though they know they can’t change history, and they were always misinterpreting what they saw on the time viewer anyway. Oh yeah…and apparently any time Lex Luthor attempts to murder Superboy, the modus operandi is to wreck his lab, leave him standing in the rubble and hope he never does that again. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/36 "2015-02-10T15:03:37Z")
Who died slipping on a ‘‘banyan peel’’ ? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/37 "2015-02-10T15:13:43Z")
That’s “banyo” - Leeta-87. Not a Legionnaire, she was seen only as a memorial on Shanghalla and as the title character in a biographical play that Ultra Boy and his girlfriend had acted in, prior to his becoming a Legionnaire. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/38 "2015-02-10T18:25:40Z")
Best issue evar: [http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2011/04/22/the-comic-book-fools-of-april-superman-ambush-bug-and-the-legion-of-substitute-heroes/](http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2011/04/22/the-comic-book-fools-of-april-superman-ambush-bug-and-the-legion-of-substitute-heroes/) ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/39 "2015-02-10T18:43:04Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > What was Blok’s special power? He could talk to rocks? Cause super-strength and a degree of invulnerability seem to be his main power. Ferro Lad is similar except he can’t even talk to rocks. Technically, anyone can talk _to_ rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461/40 "2015-02-10T21:49:19Z")
“I can call spirits from the vasty deep!” “As can I, or as can any man. But will they answer, when you do call them?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-for-superboy-and-supergirl-we-made-that-rule-to-promote-diversity-and/711461.md?page=3)