# Except of course for Pastafarianism and Pagans **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 10, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327 "2014-03-10T04:09:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327/21 "2014-03-11T16:03:41Z")
What, you really think that we are broken & nasty people to each other only because people said God told us we were flawed and sinful?! ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327/22 "2014-03-11T16:36:48Z")
Have her claims been peer-reviewed? ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327/23 "2014-03-11T18:59:52Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > This is the first indication I’ve seen that “science” has developed a metric for the objective, unbiased measurement of beauty. I’d love to read that paper. > [@Inner Stickler](#): > > Oh yeah, it was a great study. It involved women of varying aesthetic appeal and their repulsive/attractive effect on ships in the harbor. According to Asimov, one milliHelen is the amount of beauty necessary to launch one ship. Now if someone knows how many towers Illium had, we can figure out how many milliHelens it takes to burn one down. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327/24 "2014-03-12T04:56:46Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > What, you really think that we are broken & nasty people to each other only because people said God told us we were flawed and sinful?! No, but Jesus’ death didn’t stop us from being broken and nasty to each other. It only gave us an avenue to be forgiven for original sin. Well, if I don’t believe in God then I don’t believe I was guilty of any original sin so I didn’t need Jesus to die for me. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327/25 "2014-03-12T06:11:10Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > This is the first indication I’ve seen that “science” has developed a metric for the objective, unbiased measurement of beauty. I’d love to read that paper. There are several, but [you can get the gist of it by starting here. > [@](#): > > Researchers at Tel Aviv University have even created a “beauty machine” that can transform a face into the more attractive version of someone. > > The machine not only shows the human ideal of a perfectly beautiful face, but it also can help plastic surgeons create that vision. Beauty “is not simply in the eye of the beholder,” researcher Daniel Cohen-Or told LiveScience in 2008. “Beauty can be quantified by mathematical measurements and ratios. It can be defined as average distances between features, which a majority of people agree are the most beautiful.” ]([Samantha Brick's Claim Reveals Science of Beauty | Live Science](http://www.livescience.com/19553-samantha-brick-beauty.html)) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327/26 "2014-03-17T21:34:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, but Jesus’ death didn’t stop us from being broken and nasty to each other. It only gave us an avenue to be forgiven for original sin. Well, if I don’t believe in God then I don’t believe I was guilty of any original sin so I didn’t need Jesus to die for me. I am not aware of any version of Christianity that teaches that Jesus only died to allow forgiveness of original sin. Honestly, the concept of original sin is only necessary to deal with an objection based on a non-existent condition: the person who has never done anything wrong and thus needs no forgiveness. That is, using the definition of original sin that you seem to be using. A lot of people use it to mean the desire to sin in the first place, which definitely a problem humans have–a desire to do that which helps ourselves but hurts others. BTW, thanks for saying that out loud, as I had been wrestling with that concept. But by reading it from someone else, I instantly saw the flaws. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327/27 "2014-03-17T21:40:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Same thing with other religions. Eliminate Allah’s justice and we have no need for Allah’s mercy. Eliminate the doctrine that life is suffering and we don’t need an eightfold path to escape it. Eliminate the threat of Xenu and we don’t need to get clear. A major portion of religion is seeking ways to escape the emotional torment that only exists because religion put it there. No, because all humans have an inherent desire for justice. All humans experience the sufferings of life and want to be able to not suffer. I’m not quite sure what the threat of Xenu is, but the idea of being clear is to be happy and mentally healthy, which is something people inherently want. If religions only solved problems that they themselves created, they would have been thrown off long ago. Like it or not, religions offer solutions to real problems. You may not think they are effective, but that doesn’t change what they offer. ---
**Author:** ![Athabasca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Athabasca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athabasca)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327/28 "2014-03-17T21:47:22Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Atheist glurge. The stuff on the right isn’t scientific. Though it would be amusing if it were. “A mammal.” “A carbon based lifeform,” etc. Around here, I’d like to be known as a text-based lifeform:D ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327/29 "2014-03-17T22:23:48Z")
Probably not peer-reviewed, and I doubt an IRB cleared the use of child subjects. And biased selection of variables (adjectives). I bet she can’t even pronounce sinful. “Sinfuww.” And that’s not her handwriting. I hate when people use their cute kids for whatever purpose, because the plain text wouldn’t be popular. Also, according to some religions, she’s full of the ghosts of dead aliens. You’d think that’d be notable to mention. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/except-of-course-for-pastafarianism-and-pagans/683327.md?page=1)