# Excerpts From New Scientology Tell-All Book: Travolta & Cruise **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 11, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822 "2013-01-11T03:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/21 "2013-01-12T05:43:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I believe the Scientology response is that a neophyte is not ready for the difficult high-level information yet. They have to go through the paces before they get there. > > Christianity has a similar concept–that “when I was a babe I drank milk, now I eat meat”–that a person’s understanding of the religion evolves over time. > > RE: payment for services, Scientologists would tell you that all religions charge for their services, and Scientologists use the up-front fee-for-services model much like buying tickets to attend Jewish services on high holy days. > > (I’m an atheist and not a Scientologist, by the way.) Christianity has NOTHING like the same concept. Everything we Catholics are expected to believe is spelled out in the 20-30 second creed we recite every Sunday. There is NOTHING that’s kept secret until we’ve invested years of time. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/22 "2013-01-12T06:14:45Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Does it call for ritual body modification? Smearing ashes on your face? Sweeping the ground in front of you with a broom as you walk? Passing your hand through flames? Wearing special underwear? How about special hats? Does its leader wear a giant stylized vulva on his head? > > My point is not that Scientology is not absurd–it most assuredly is. But is it really that much more absurd than religions that are widely accepted as “normal”? (Now, if you want to call it a more outrageous scam, I don’t think I could argue with you, though some of the others have a huge edge in the long-con competition.) > [@CalMeacham](#): > > It’s not the weirdness of Scientology – it’s their nasty vindictive and litigious streak. It goes WAY beyond mere defvense of their institution into downright attack. > > They framed Paulette Cooper (author of _The Scandal of Scientology_) by getting her fingerprints on paper upon which they later wrote a bomb threat and forged her signature and simultaneously launched a campaign of harassment and threats that was intended to unhinge her. This was lovingly spelled out in detail in papers that the FBI seized on a raid of Scientology headquarters. > > [Paulette Cooper - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulette_Cooper) > > They also broke into FBI offices (“Operation Snow White”) to steal documents, and performed many other wonderful stunts that you won’t find other wacky cults indulging in. > > [Scientology controversies - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversies#Criminal_behavior) > [Operation Snow White - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White) > [@astorian](#): > > I’ll repeat a point I’ve made about Scientology vs. other religions before > > If you didn’t know anything about Judaism, and wanted to know what it was about, any rabbi could and would gladly tell you the basics in 10 minutes, for free. At that point, you could decide that this was intriguing and worthy of further study or dismiss it as crap and forget about it. > > Similarly, any priest would happily tell you the basics of Catholicism for free in 10 minutes; he’d then steer you to the complete church Catechism, which would answer ANY question you could possibly have on Church doctrine (and which you could read for free at your local library). > > You could easily find out what almost ANY mainstream religion is all about with a minimal investment of time, and without shelling out any money. Can you do that with Scientology? Can I go to a Scientology office and find out what it’s all about for free, in 10 minutes? > > That makes all the difference in the world, in my book. I agree with **Balance**. I think Scientology is perceived as being so different because it so relatively young as religions go. I believe religions go through … growth stages, for lack of a better term, though if they don’t last maybe it would be more accurate to call them death stages. Whichever, many religions have gone through stages of paranoia and protectionism, and used secrecy and (shall we say) underhanded tactics to control their flocks. The Catholic church could have people killed or imprisoned for heresy. The bible used to be a secret – that is, people were discouraged from having a bible and reading it because they were told they needed a priest as an intermediary between them and their God. The system was powerful and corrupt, and that surely pissed off Martin Luther. My main point is that the Catholic church did the same things, but it was long before our lifetimes, and it was eventually forced to change. If their old tactics were never challenged, they’d still be doing the same shit today. I’m always amused when I see some TV program about a so-called “cult”, and almost always there’s commentary from a representative of a “mainstream” religion – a minister or priest or rabbi. Every one of them would _kill_ to have a flock as loyal and obedient and generous with their money and time as cult members are. But their centuries of cultural baggage have made that virtually impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Postariti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Postariti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Postariti)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/23 "2013-01-12T07:20:06Z")
I found it interesting that the current Scientology leader is upsetting members so much they’re leaving. The two top lawyers, the one who were successfully attacking people who criticized Scientology, left because of him. The most disturbing part of the article was the brief mention that the leader’s father had recently “escaped” from one of their compounds. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/24 "2013-01-12T11:36:19Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > That’s secretiveness, not absurdity. What does it have to do with the post you quoted? > > Look, folks, I’m not defending Scientology. Far from it. I’ve already called it evil, absurd, and a scam in this thread, for pity’s sake. I was addressing a single point by **sparky!** about the absurdity of a religion keeping it from gaining traction by listing–in a would-be humorous manner–some of the oddities of mainstream (and not-so-mainstream, but mostly accepted) religions that have not kept them from gaining and retaining adherents. My meaning in post 2 above was that we accept the crazy religions and their practices that we have today, since they began so long ago, before humans really had a knowledge of science or the world around them. What shocks me is Scientology’s ability to take hold in an age where we do have science and we do have the tools and knowledge to explain life and the world around us. Again, from what I know, Scientology is absolutely absurd, as though LRH was trying to create something completely off the wall to test the gullibility of people. Yet it still took hold. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/25 "2013-01-12T17:57:09Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Um why? > > If I get some bad premarital sex I don’t call the Christians. To be clear I didn’t mean a problem like “didn’t give me the dose of anti depressant I wanted” or “billed me £10 more than I was expecting”. I meant a serious problem like being detained against my will on unfounded suspicion of mental illness. You may consider calling a Christian group, or Christian-funded group if you were raped I bet. The Scientologists run an anti-psychaitry group called the Citizens’ Committee on Human Rights that is \*\*\*extremely \*\*\*aggressive, and no doubt well connected. My enemy’s enemy is my friend, and all that… @Twickster that was on topic, I see you ignored the person calling me an idiot, good moderating as usual. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/26 "2013-01-12T18:12:47Z")
OP here - just wondering if people commenting here have read the two links in my OP about Travolta and Cruise? We can debate Scientology til the cows come home (and I have a personal horror story of a friend who was conned into joining this cult, but several of us helped her get out), but I was more interested in learning how they treat/lassoed in the celebrities to keep their image. Apparently the celebrity angle isn’t all that interesting to others. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/27 "2013-01-12T18:58:37Z")
I read the two links; the most interesting thing to me is that neither excerpt touched on the gay rumors about either actor. I’m not sure what conclusion to draw; are those rumors not true, did the author choose not to go there, or what? ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/28 "2013-01-12T19:14:47Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I read the two links; the most interesting thing to me is that neither excerpt touched on the gay rumors about either actor. I’m not sure what conclusion to draw; are those rumors not true, did the author choose not to go there, or what? Well, there is this quote: “The Church hierarchy was desperately concerned that details about the private matters of their most valuable member would be revealed; at the same time, the hierarchy was prepared to use those details against him. Bill Franks, the Church’s former executive director, told Time magazine that in Franks’ opinion, the Church had Travolta trapped. At one point, the star sought assurance from Franks that his private confessions wouldn’t be used against him. In truth, intelligence officers inside the Church had already been directed to gather material – called a Dead Agent pack – that would be used against Travolta if he turned.” That does imply there might be something that Travolta might not like to have made public - although I am sure you could spin this subtle blackmail however you want. Assuming the Gay rumors are true, the blurb above does explain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/29 "2013-01-12T19:27:46Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I read the two links; the most interesting thing to me is that neither excerpt touched on the gay rumors about either actor. I’m not sure what conclusion to draw; are those rumors not true, did the author choose not to go there, or what? Regarding Cruise, there was this: “In 2004 Miscavige assigned a team to help Cruise in his search for a girlfriend. The search came up with an aspiring actress Nazanin Boniadi, a 25-year-old Iranian born, London-raised woman whose mother was also a Scientologist. She was given intensive auditing and security checks by the Church and flown to New York and Telluride in late 2007 for elaborate dates with Cruise.” Seriously - Tom Cruise needs help finding a girlfriend?! This good-looking, wildly popular actor, with tons of money needs help scoring chicks, eh? Right. Like 98% of all wannabe actresses in Hollywood wouldn’t fall all over him in a heartbeat? Sounds a tad fishy to me. (BTW, I do know more of this back story, but let’s just leave it at face value and ponder the concept of auditioning appropriate Scientologists to become his beau.) ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/30 "2013-01-12T20:52:33Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > To be clear I didn’t mean a problem like “didn’t give me the dose of anti depressant I wanted” or “billed me £10 more than I was expecting”. I meant a serious problem like being detained against my will on unfounded suspicion of mental illness. You may consider calling a Christian group, or Christian-funded group if you were raped I bet. No I wouldn’t. If I have two enemies who also happen to be enemies with each other, then we just form an enemy triangle and be done with it. I would definitely not want to get mixed up with Scientologists no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/31 "2013-01-12T22:17:10Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > No I wouldn’t. If I have two enemies who also happen to be enemies with each other, then we just form an enemy triangle and be done with it. > > I would definitely not want to get mixed up with Scientologists no matter what. I see where you are coming from, but there are hundreds of people (e.g. survivors of the [Chelmsford Private Hosptial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelmsford_Royal_Commission) deep sleep therapy) who are very pleased indeed they had a Scientology front group to speak on their behalf. Put another way, I support a palestinian state - and I also support the right of somalialand to be recognised. Would much rather have a small team from mossad on my side than the entire resources of the somalialand secret service though… ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/32 "2013-01-13T23:40:58Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > I read the Cruise link. It really is amazing to me that an absurd “religion” could have ever gained traction like it has. It has not gained traction. It is not growing. There are AT MOST, 50,000 active members worldwide, and that number is likely dropping now that everyone has seen South Park. The cult is in a death spiral of prominent defections and bad publicity. ---
**Author:** ![IaMoDiNaRy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IaMoDiNaRy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IaMoDiNaRy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822/33 "2013-01-14T05:08:07Z")
OP, I read your two links - I’ve been curiously following the Tom Cruise connection to scientology for quite a while. I had a friend who became interested in Scientology years ago while in college. He went through one of their auditing sessions. He didn’t commit to anything that day and the relentless hounding began. They drove him crazy for a while… No matter how bluntly or how many times he told them NO. After he told me about it, I became extremely curious as to how anyone could become involved. The more I read, the crazier it sounded. Especially their treatment of anyone who dared speak against them or who tried to get out . I found a very interesting web site that I still visit often to this day. Ex-members post there and some of their stories are definitely wild. Some of them interacted with Travolta and Cruise at different points while still involved with scientology. They have some very interesting stories. [http://www.forum.exscn.net/forum.php?](http://www.forum.exscn.net/forum.php?) They have a section called Scientology Celebrities… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-scientology-tell-all-book-travolta-cruise/646822.md?page=1)