# Excerpts from new Woodward book on Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745 "2018-09-04T16:01:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/42 "2018-09-05T13:40:59Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Sadly, any marginal Trump supporters who may be persuadable but reads the fox news website may never get the chance to evaluate whether Woodward is credible or not because for the last two days the story has been in the side column, seven slots down. Yeah, I actually read Fox News just to see how different it views the world than everyone else. It’s really a completely different world. Woodward’s book is in the top 3 stories on pretty much every website including foreign ones. It’s not currently mentioned at all on the Fox News site. Their top story is about scam Veteran’s charities followed by one that alleges Chuck Schumer organized the protestors at Kavanaugh’s confirmation. It’s just a complete Bizarro world there. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/43 "2018-09-05T13:58:48Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > “That wasn’t my voice on those tapes.” Who was it? John Miller? David Dennison? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/44 "2018-09-05T14:07:38Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Does this book by itself change anything? Not much, but maybe a little. And in tandem with everything else, I think the book matters. The recent polls suggest that people might be starting to wake up a little, starting to realize that he needlessly waged a blood feud with a dead American hero because he’s a petty piece of shit - just like Woodward’s book and everyone else willing to speak on the record have said. It’s not that Woodward’s work changes everything, but it does corroborate everything that has been said before, and Woodward is arguably more credible than a Michael Wolff or Omarosa Manigault or even a James Comey. There comes a point where even skeptics have to acknowledge that everyone who knows Trump agrees: this guy ain’t normal. I think we’re in the classic “putting straw on the camel’s back”. Every drip of incompetence is another straw. Sure, the camel is still standing, for now. But someday, a straw will be one straw too many and the camel will be broken. Then, we’ll have many people (including Republicans) loudly proclaiming how relieved they are that our national ordeal has ended. That is the point when Republicans will suddenly be in a hurry to impeach the unindicted co-conspirator Donald John Trump. They will be hoping the American people forget or forgive the Republicans’ complicity with corruption and evil. But we must not let it be forgotten nor forgiven. Democrats must not let their relief extend to allowing corruption and evil go unpunished. Every single bad actor must be exposed and prosecuted. We have a lot of housework ahead of us. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/45 "2018-09-05T14:19:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Shitty insults to people is part of his brand. I doubt many Southerners will be shocked or all that upset by the fact that he sometimes insults someone by calling them a “dumb Southerner.” > > But being a clueless buffoon is part of his reality, not his brand. For people who think he’s playing 12th-dimensional chess, the idea that the Deep State is outmaneuvering him **by hiding things and hoping he forgets about them** might shake their confidence a little. > > Or it might not, because whatever else you might say about the True Believers, you can’t fault them for a lack of confidence. Their leader is an archetypal confidence man. It’ll more likely make them think he’s playing 13-dimensional chess. Once you’re very firmly locking into a certain belief, contrary evidence often makes you cling to that belief even more strongly. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/46 "2018-09-05T14:33:32Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I think we’re in the classic “putting straw on the camel’s back”. Every drip of incompetence is another straw. **Incompetence** , not “incontinence.” You’re not going for a grody mixed metaphor here, whew. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/47 "2018-09-05T14:40:04Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I can’t wait for the Coen Brothers movie based on this book. Nah, for this we need [Armando Iannucci](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0406334/?ref_=tt_ov_dr) of “Veep” and “The Death of Stalin”. He’s a master of political absurdity of the highest order. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/48 "2018-09-05T14:43:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > For people who think he’s playing 12th-dimensional chess, the idea that the Deep State is outmaneuvering him **by hiding things and hoping he forgets about them** might shake their confidence a little. I doubt many people in Trump’s base are ever going to read Woodward’s book. Or any book for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/49 "2018-09-05T14:54:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I doubt many people in Trump’s base are ever going to read Woodward’s book. Or any book for that matter. That was too easy. For shame! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/50 "2018-09-05T15:33:43Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Yeah, I actually read Fox News just to see how different it views the world than everyone else. It’s really a completely different world. Woodward’s book is in the top 3 stories on pretty much every website including foreign ones. It’s not currently mentioned at all on the Fox News site. Their top story is about scam Veteran’s charities followed by one that alleges Chuck Schumer organized the protestors at Kavanaugh’s confirmation. It’s just a complete Bizarro world there. Bizarro world though it may be, Fox News is a highly effective propaganda tool. The purveyors of misinformation at Fox know exactly how to spin stories to maximize the human desire for outrage in a way that, say, Rachel Maddow does not. And unlike CNN which provides so much static with talking heads just repeating the day’s buzzword outrage at eath other that it may as well just be the White Noise Network, Fox has a consistent point of view. Every time CNN or MSNBC pundits react to some incidentally positive (or at least not destructive) thing that Trump has done with the, “Maybe this time he’s actually going to be presidential,” line such as after bombing Syrian airfields I have to wonder if they are really that stupid or if they’re just trying to look even-handed by giving the appearance of balance with false equivalency and restrained criticism. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’ll more likely make them think he’s playing 13-dimensional chess. Once you’re very firmly locking into a certain belief, contrary evidence often makes you cling to that belief even more strongly. And this isn’t anything new—Catholics have been preacticing this for centuries with “papal infalibility”—but the degree of blatant counterfactualism with Trump is something new in the modern discourse. Trump will literally change his story in the middle of an interview and his boosters will follow along as if there is no disconnect. As an experiment on neurosocial dynamics this presidency is fascinating; as executive leadership of a nuclear-armed world power it is horrifying. > [@Icarus](#): > > Nah, for this we need [Armando Iannucci](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0406334/?ref_=tt_ov_dr) of “Veep” and “The Death of Stalin”. He’s a master of political absurdity of the highest order. Iannucci would never produce something this badly implausible. His previous work like _In The Loop_ and _VEEP_ was well grounded in political reality. (I talked to a former Congressional intern who said that _VEEP_ is pretty much dead on in antics of the Congressperson she worked for including the profane insults and staff infighting.) The Trump administration is on another level entirely, where anyone vaguely competent or trying to do their job in service to the country at large us summarily dismissed while Trump shits out tweets about Colin Kaepernick in serial with threats of nuclear attack. This is some Spitting Image material. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/51 "2018-09-05T16:20:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > And this isn’t anything new—Catholics have been preacticing this for centuries with “papal infalibility”—but the degree of blatant counterfactualism with Trump is something new in the modern discourse. To be fair, since the Catholics made papal infallibility an official doctrine, the Popes have only invoked it once (the bodily assumption of Mary, in 1950.) Trump claims infallibility at least twice a week. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/52 "2018-09-05T19:31:58Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > To be fair, since the Catholics made papal infallibility an official doctrine, the Popes have only invoked it once (the bodily assumption of Mary, in 1950.) [Footnote citing the Master’s column on this issue](https://archive.li/WPFY). ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/53 "2018-09-05T20:31:12Z")
someone still working for Trump says a lot of senior White House folks are resisting him from inside: [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html) ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/54 "2018-09-05T20:58:52Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > someone still working for Trump says a lot of senior White House folks are resisting him from inside: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html) Oh FFS! Spare me the protestations that they are doing “God’s work” in keeping him from, oh I don’t know, starting nuclear war with Belgium. They are complicit soldiers in this nightmare and should each have their own spot when the gallows are being constructed (so to speak). ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/55 "2018-09-05T21:15:38Z")
I think it’s safe to say that was not written by Sarah Sanders. I wonder if anyone would try to match that writing style to figure out who wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/56 "2018-09-05T21:21:21Z")
I’m not really a fan of anonymous op-eds from within the White House; it makes it easy for the Times to be labeled fake news. Put a name to it next time and hopefully persuade them to resign shortly before or after publication. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/57 "2018-09-05T21:25:37Z")
Trump was an anonymous source for stories about himself - he used the fake name John Miller when talking to the press. And of course “Mr. Miller” always said great things about Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/58 "2018-09-05T21:34:10Z")
From the “Resistance” op-ed: > [@](#): > > The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations. > > I would know. I am one of them. > [@](#): > > To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous. Dude, make up your fucking mind. If DJT, Turle McConnell, Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders all think that you are a weaselly traitor, just maybe you should pay heed to this rare example of bi-partisanship. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/59 "2018-09-05T21:37:09Z")
someone noticed the word “lodestar” in the op ed and then found 3 times Pence used that word. I don’t think it’s Pence but that word is not common at least from what I know. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/60 "2018-09-05T22:09:20Z")
The phrase “off the rails” is used by both the anonymous writer and John Kelly in Woodward’s book. But then again, that’s probably the name the West Wing staff’s softball team at this point. ---
**Author:** ![UnwittingAmericans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d9b06d/32.png) [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745/61 "2018-09-05T22:48:46Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m not really a fan of anonymous op-eds from within the White House; it makes it easy for the Times to be labeled fake news. Put a name to it next time and hopefully persuade them to resign shortly before or after publication. Whoever wrote it should let it sink in and then quit and go public Monday morning or sooner, before repubs start lying about having hearings. This is a train that was already running downhill in a tunnel with no lights and the brake lines cut. An anonymous op-ed is not going to magically fix the brakes. Left as is, this is not going to end the way people are hoping. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excerpts-from-new-woodward-book-on-trump/820745.md?page=4)